Posts by XJW4EVR

32

Concerning the "born again" thread

by startingover in

jw
friends

potentialjwconvertwife said:.

well, as you know, i never was a dub.

but i am and have been a born again christian for many years.

XJW4EVR

I've heard this mentioned before, and I really have a problem with that kind of thinking. Those of you who are so sure about your Jesus that you can't begin to imagine that some of us left the JW's after realizing we'd been conned, looked into the basis for Christianity and decided it was all flawed. In my case it had nothing to do with being bitter and I know I am not alone. I have absolutely no need to believe in God, and I am in fact sorry that many of you out there need it for a crutch.

Can't you feel the love? Oh wait, I forget, it's not about being an atheist, but an anti-theist. What I find most ironic is that these same anti-theists are the first and loudest to howl about being proselyted. Funny how they never seem to abide by their own standards.

Anyway, just because the JW's are screwed up does not mean that I have to toss Christianity.

42

Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)

by lovelylil in

.condemned him to be crucified, those who had .

finally, the claim that on the third day jesus appeared to his disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-christian!.

we read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats.

XJW4EVR

After reading this thread and others like it, I am convinced there is a quirk in some people's brain that allows them to believe in invisible beings. I say quirk because that can't be normal like me

There are many "invisible" things in which you believe and trust in every day. You cannot "see" them but you see the evidence that it exists every day. Shal I list them, and further demonstrate the silliness of the above premise?

42

Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)

by lovelylil in

.condemned him to be crucified, those who had .

finally, the claim that on the third day jesus appeared to his disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-christian!.

we read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats.

XJW4EVR

What does that indicate to you?

It indicates that you are acting in accordance with Scripture. Not some Governing Body's interpretation, but what Paul said under direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, Paul answers the question, "What must be in order for what is to be what it is?" He states what is in 1 Corinthians, and answers what must be for this to be happening. So when the anti-theists continually affrim what Scripture says what am I to do? Abandon my belief in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus?

75

The "Historical Jesus" and Christian Faith

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the wake of lovelylil's recent threads on the "historical jesus," a side question.. let's assume, for the sake of the discussion, that the four canonical gospels are not historical accounts of jesus' life, but a much later elaboration of christian faith in narrative form -- there are many reasons for such a proposal, but i'm not going into them right now -- let's just assume.. what do you think would be better or worse to find out in the historical field, from the perspective of christian faith:.

1. that there was no "historical jesus" at all, and that the gospels are essentially a religious myth made (hi)story, "the word made flesh" so to say;.

2. that there was a "historical jesus" completely different from the christian saviour -- for example, a galilean apocalyptic prophet and political zealot, trying to cleanse the nation and the temple from both the roman occupation and ritual disorders, with no interest at all in starting a new universal (i.e.

XJW4EVR

Why waste time pointing out erroneous beliefs that end lives prematurely?

If that is their truth, then what difference does it make to you? Who are you to impose your truth on others?

How many have justified killing their fellowman because they were convinced that God was on their side and that any life sacrificed in the cause would be rewarded in an afterlife?

How many followers of the Khmer Rouge, Stalinists, Maoists, and others that followed atheism justified their actions with the idea that there is no God, and because of their atheism? I find it odd that the anti-theist refuses to realize that everytime they point a finger at other religions that three are pointing back at them.

Why try to convince people that this life is for living, that it's not just a test or a rehearsal?

If what a person believes as truth is relative, which is what would happen if there is no biblical God, so what? Who are you to impose your truth on others?

It's precisely the fact that there is no logical reason to believe in an afterlife that makes it so important to free ourselves from our delusions.

If there is no afterlife, for you, why impose your beliefs on others? Is not that what anti-theists like yourself rail against, the imposition of another person's belief?

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. -- Carl Sagan

Sadly, Dr. Sagan, was a prime example of the fideism he decried. As far as I have seen it takes much more faith to believe in random, chaotic evolution than to believe that the comos was created.

16

My Non-Earthshaking JW Encounter

by XJW4EVR in

jw
friends

this one is not earthshaking in any way, but i thought i would share it in the hopes that it'll give you the same chuckle that it gave me.. yesterday my wife and i were out on errands, and we ate at a local fast food restaurant.

we ordered, and took our food to our table.

in the table next to us was a mail carrier on his lunch break.

XJW4EVR

can you feel the love (contempt?) Or maybe it's fear of apostate cooties. Doesn't it make you want to buy some tarot cards and sit on their front step at the KH, laying out the cards? Just to watch them writhe in pain?

I would not know about the tarot cards, but I have read a number of books that deal with JWs in front of them in restaurants and cafes. They run in horror, and I just gigle in a rather perverse manner.

75

The "Historical Jesus" and Christian Faith

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the wake of lovelylil's recent threads on the "historical jesus," a side question.. let's assume, for the sake of the discussion, that the four canonical gospels are not historical accounts of jesus' life, but a much later elaboration of christian faith in narrative form -- there are many reasons for such a proposal, but i'm not going into them right now -- let's just assume.. what do you think would be better or worse to find out in the historical field, from the perspective of christian faith:.

1. that there was no "historical jesus" at all, and that the gospels are essentially a religious myth made (hi)story, "the word made flesh" so to say;.

2. that there was a "historical jesus" completely different from the christian saviour -- for example, a galilean apocalyptic prophet and political zealot, trying to cleanse the nation and the temple from both the roman occupation and ritual disorders, with no interest at all in starting a new universal (i.e.

XJW4EVR

If there was no historic Jesus (an idea that I reject outright due to the evidence), then there was no resurrection. If there was no resurrection, then I might as well find something else to do on Sunday mornings. What is more, if there is no historic Jesus and by extension no resurrection, then I have no choice but to be an atheist. What is more, I would not spend my time trying to convince others of their folly in believing in a non-historical Jesus. Since there is no afterlife, why waste time on them? Which is a question I continually ask myself when I read the posts of the anti-theists that inhabit this board.

Secondly, if there was no historical Jesus, I would not wrap myself in a mythical Christ, as some of the humanistic Christians on this board do. Again, why waste your time believing in something that is not true?

Neither would be tolerable. I guess I am one Christian that would not say "whatever" but instead live my beliefs out. Because as Paul said, if Christ did not raise from the dead then party on dudes (Bill & Ted's Version of 1 Corinthians 15, however I am being redundant, and I need to move on.

42

Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)

by lovelylil in

.condemned him to be crucified, those who had .

finally, the claim that on the third day jesus appeared to his disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-christian!.

we read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats.

XJW4EVR

By starting the thread, are you trying to influence others to beleive the way you do, which by your own admission is ultimatedly based on faith? It seems that no matter what proof was given to the contrary of your beliefs, you will eventually play the faith card.

Hi startingover,

Yes, it is about faith. The same way that you, by faith, turn the ignition to start your car, the same way that you step into an elevator, or that you traverse a bridge. Faith is an intregal part of life.

I would even go one step further, the hostile reaction of the anti-theists on this board does nothing for me except reaffirm my faith. Paul wrote that the croos is to them that perish foolishness. Everytime I see an anti-theist say this my faith is strengthened.

91

To all Bible believers... and non

by dawg in

jw
friends

my questions to you that believe the bible are this .

ok, so you come on this site and attack the jws, why cant you see that you are the same as the jws when you defend the bible?

after all, arent you defending the already dis proven faith that you believe?

XJW4EVR

XJW,
I think that your OP may be in error because it appears to me that you are presupposing that the JW faith and New Testament Christianity are the same. In my research they are not similar. They have diametrically oposed views on theology, christology, soteriology, ecclesiology and eschatology (and I am just scratching the surface). However, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I think that Dawg's point is that both JW's, mainstream Christianity et al, rely on interpretation of Biblical texts upon which they base their faith.
As bickering over Biblical interpretations hounds the history of both the JW's and all other Christian religions, this very fact validates the point that Dawg is making.
HS

HI Hillary,

WIth all do respect I did not come away with that view. Dawg clearly equates the JW faith with Christianity when he stated:

Ok, so you come on this site and attack the JWs, why can’t you see that you are the same as the JWs when you defend the Bible? After all, aren’t you defending the already dis proven faith that you believe?

Based on this I do not think that you post answers mine.

16

My Non-Earthshaking JW Encounter

by XJW4EVR in

jw
friends

this one is not earthshaking in any way, but i thought i would share it in the hopes that it'll give you the same chuckle that it gave me.. yesterday my wife and i were out on errands, and we ate at a local fast food restaurant.

we ordered, and took our food to our table.

in the table next to us was a mail carrier on his lunch break.

XJW4EVR

This one is not earthshaking in any way, but I thought I would share it in the hopes that it'll give you the same chuckle that it gave me.

Yesterday my wife and I were out on errands, and we ate at a local fast food restaurant. We ordered, and took our food to our table. In the table next to us was a Mail Carrier on his lunch break. He got up, and I noticed he had a copy of the Revelation book on his table. No biigie except for the fact that it was spiral bound. I guess I lingered too long, and he came back and asked what I was so interested in. Without thinking I said his book, and asked if the books were coming spiral bound now. He said they were not, and that he had the binding done himself. He then asked how I was familiar with that book. I told him that I was raised a JW. He asked if I was still a JW, and I responded no, I was not. His face then contorted as if he was in pain, and rather curtly said, "Well then, good day." He then huffed out the door and into his Postal van. My wife, who was never a JW, asked what all that was about, and so I explained to her, and we both had a good laugh. I hope this gives you the same.

91

To all Bible believers... and non

by dawg in

jw
friends

my questions to you that believe the bible are this .

ok, so you come on this site and attack the jws, why cant you see that you are the same as the jws when you defend the bible?

after all, arent you defending the already dis proven faith that you believe?

XJW4EVR

Dawg,

I think that your OP may be in error because it appears to me that you are presupposing that the JW faith and New Testament Christianity are the same. In my research they are not similar. They have diametrically oposed views on theology, christology, soteriology, ecclesiology and eschatology (and I am just scratching the surface). However, you are entitled to your own opinion.