XJW4EVR

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Posts by XJW4EVR

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  32

  I need to know

  by cosmic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shining one just did a thread on an article that supposedly shows the bible was not fabricated.

  i didn't want to hijack his thread, so i started this one.. .

  i'm getting old, i guess, and maybe alzheimer's is starting in, but i have lost my vision, my understanding, my assurity if you will.

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  XJW4EVR

  Bacause He created you. That is why you owe God worship.

  However, if you believe that you evolved from the goo, through the zoo, to you, then why even bother ask the question?
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  103

  No fabrication in Gospels

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.rzim.org/publications/jttran.php?seqid=52 .

  "what cannot be doubted is that many new testament critics have approached the gospels with an utterly unjustified skepticism--a skepticism that wouldn't be considered justified in any other branch of ancient history.

  new testament scholar r. t. france declares that "at the level of their literary and historical character we have good reason to treat the gospels as a source of information on the life and teachings of jesus, and thus on the historical origins of christianity.

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  XJW4EVR

  I'm just curious. How many of you fine folks that spend so much time reading books & articles from one side of the debate (the skepital side) on the Scriptures, have actually read books & articles from the other side (the believers) side. Now I know, I am sure that you will tell me that the believers have an axe to grind, but doesn't the other side have a an axe to grind also?

  One of the things that I learned how to do in college, is to research both sides of an issue. To become so familiar with both sides, that you could atack or defend both sides without giving up your own personal opinion.

  Just curious if any have actually done that.
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  29

  Jesus Papers?

  by Carmel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone seen the new book out called "the jesus papers".

  sounds facinating!

  carmel

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  XJW4EVR

  I find it hilarious that people who claim to be educated are taken in be books that have been demonstrated over and again as frauds dressed up as truth.

  People who believe this sort of drivel should be compared to Americans that get their view of American history from a John Jakes Kent Family Chronicles.
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  146

  The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

  by Honesty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

  ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

  this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

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  XJW4EVR

  I find the attitude of Zen Ndist, to be hypocritical. ; He or she would be the first to complain of attempts at proselytizing by Christians, yet he seems to have no qualms about proselytizing for a secular humanistic gospel. ; Did you exchange the zealotry of the WT$ for the zealotry of secular humanism?

  Just curious. ; I do expect to be pilloried for making this observation, as I have found in my journey away from the Borg, that the most antagonistic and venomous proselytizers in public are the secular humanists.

  since when is honesty and accuracy related to secular humanism? ; why would you make such a conclusion?

  if anything I am an agnostic who is BARELY Zen (^_^) and I dont pretend to KNOW anything beyond my experiences and beliefs about them... I am entitled to my opinions and will back them up with the evidence I have and dont mind at all being shown wrong.

  Because I don't think that the website you are pimping is either.
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  30

  What is now the most accurate Bible to buy??

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that i've read ray franz's part about how his uncle and others with little actual greek or hebrew training translated the bible into the nwt, i've been interested in finding the best bible out there is correctly translated by people who know what the hell they are talking about.

  niv?

  i've also been looking at other religions lately, ones that are "somewhat" close to the jw's teachings to an extent, and have been interested in seventh day adventists.

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  XJW4EVR

  Well the Koran is certainly more "accurate" than the NT regardless of the version, but beyond that the Kitab-Igan is fully authenticated.

  carmel

  I certainly hope you are joking, but just in case you have bought into the muslim lie, please post your sources.

  I haven't had such a good belly laugh in years.
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  86

  My Story

  by XJW4EVR in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was adopted into a jw family in southern california.

  my birth mother gave me up after 6 months (the terms mom & dad refer to my adoptive/real parents).

  she gave me up due to the fact that she already had a three year old boy, and back in the late sixties it was not as socially acceptable to be a single mother.

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  XJW4EVR

  
  I have placed certain memories here for perusal, not to try and paint the WT$ as all evil or all good. I have posted memories that I believe were instrumental in my exodus from the slavery under the GB & Elder taskmasters. While I am not so egotistical to think that my experience is unique or the norm, I do think it is reflective of what many have gone through. Based on the feedback I have recieved this appears to be true.

  All in all, I hope that some good will come of this.

  As I mentioned before, my Dad's trip to Denver, for direction in being an instructor for the Elder's school was very important in my exit from the WT$. This was around 1983/84. My mom and I were able to go to Denver with him, and enjoy a nice vacation.

  During this time my mom decided that we should spend a morning in field service. No big deal for me because I wouldn't run into any of my "worldly" friends. So off we went into one of the Denver suburbs. During the morning, mom and I had a great time. We talked to a number of people, and it was the first time in long time that I actually enjoyed knocking on the doors of people. Then we got to a home where there were a lot of little children. The toys and tricycles were strewn across the lawn. This was my door. I knocked and a rather pleasant lady in her early to mid 30s came to the door. I went into my presentation, and she stopped me with an upraised hand and said (I remember her words exactly), "You only do what you are told do by your leaders in Brooklyn. You believe only what you are told to believe by your leaders in Brooklyn." She then politely stated that she was not interested, and my mom and I turned and walked away.

  I didn't speak about what had been said to my mom, or to my dad later that evening, but I hit me like a ton of bricks. I had never encountered any "opposer" that ever said that to me or anyone else I was with in field service. Any "opposer" I ran into usually went for the Bible or the dumb doctrines of the WT$, and all that ever served to do was prove that I was right. I was never prepared to deal with this sort of attack. The attack of being a mindless automoton. I also think that the reason this struck me, was that I was reading George Orwell's 1984. In the book I saw many parallels to the top leadership in the WT$. I saw parallels to Winston's reeducation at the hands of O'Brien in Room 101, to my experience with the JC in Red Bluff. I saw the teaching of family member's turning in one another for the purity of the JW religion to be akin to the Parson's children being part of the Spies.

  It was after the Denver incident, that my dad gave me a black & white TV for my room. I was also given a cable outlet, and I was given the freedom to whatch TV without being in the front room. It was on a Saturday night that I ran acroos John Ankerburg, Laurie McGregor & Walter Martin. It was here, in my room, that the hold of the WT$ began to break. I learned so much about the dishonesty of the WT$'s past. I won't go into it since most of you know it. My search to at first deny what McGregor & Martin said led me to my dad's extensive WT library. Dad looked at this as a good thing, since I never told him what I was researching. Soon the effort to deny the statements of McGregor & Martin turned into affirming what they had said. Learning that everything I had been taught since a baby was a lie. My faith in the Borg was shaken to its core, however the one burning question was never answered by this TV show, or the research I was doing. That question was "Where do I go if the WT$ is wrong?" Since this question was never answered, and the fact that I was only 16 when this happened I was not going to leave. I knew my dad's loyalty was to the Borg & not the family. Where was a 16 year old to go? So I stayed, but I knew that I was living a lie.

  There is a funny thing that happens to you when you live a lie. You begin, unconsciously, to sabotage yourself. I got involved with drugs, and drinking. I also, and quite by accident, became a bookie at the high school. I also began shoplifting, at first to get the albums & tapes I wanted, but eventually to make more money to get loaded or drunk with. I also got a job away from The Burrito Wagon. This helped me in not having to go to meetings on Tuesday or Thursday. I'm low man on the totem pole, I told my dad, I can't ask for those nights since someone with more seniority had those nights off anyway. THis was n't true, and in fact, I specifically asked to work those nights. I was basically a functioning addict. I knew that I couldn't get high or drunk before work, but I wanted...no, I needed to stop the mental & emotional pain that I caused myself by looking at "apostate" material. I needed to stop the pain caused by parents that cared more about a religion, than me the son they chose.

  Then in the summer between my junior & senior years, I was given a great gift. My parents decided that I should spend the summer here in L.A. I was 18 at the time. I was a year behind due to the move from California to New Mexico. I won't get into that now, since it is not germaine to this story. It was during this time that I saw, and called the number for Bethel Ministries (what is now known as Free Minds). I went to Christian Book Stores and bought all the anti-WT$ books I could find. It was that summer that the Trinity brochure came out. It was this book that changed my mind again. After reading it I determined that regardless of the past of the WT$, they are right on the Trinity, and I figured stick it out, and the rest of the stuff was junk. It was during this time I realized how good it was to be free in a large city. I determined in my heart that once I finished school I would move back to L.A. and just fade away. I got this attitude from a friend of my dad's. I lived with him while I was in L.A. that summer. He never attended meetings, just the Memorial & the District Convention. He frequented Las Vegas frequently. I went with him, and he taught me poker, blackjack & horse racing. He smoked cigars, and cussed. I could do as I wished, and it never got back to my parents. I stayed out all night, I went to night clubs, I indulged in freedom. It was great

  However, my current course of drinking, drugs & gambling was leading to self-destruction. That chapter soon.
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  20

  The WTS a religion or a commercial enterprise?

  by greendawn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think the wts is behaving like a religion or like a commercial enterprise (operation) that is aping religion in order to derive profit out of it?

  .

  i see them as a business whose imitation of religion is so inept that it can easily be detected.

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  XJW4EVR

  It's a commercial, religious enterprise.
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  30

  What is now the most accurate Bible to buy??

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that i've read ray franz's part about how his uncle and others with little actual greek or hebrew training translated the bible into the nwt, i've been interested in finding the best bible out there is correctly translated by people who know what the hell they are talking about.

  niv?

  i've also been looking at other religions lately, ones that are "somewhat" close to the jw's teachings to an extent, and have been interested in seventh day adventists.

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  XJW4EVR

  I'll stick to the KJ. I have been comparing Bibles for years and I will find words translated in other versions that I don't like at all. For instance other versians will change the fact that Mary was a virgen to Mary was a maiden. Maiden meaning unmarried woman, virgin or not.

  Which versions?

  I tried SDA, Seventh Day Adventists. They are just an offshoot of the WTBTS that stopped declaring the end of the world. This statement is incorrect. The JW's are an offshoot of the Adventist movement

  This statement is incorrect. The JWs are an offshoot of the Adventist movement, not vice versa.

  I am glad you are in a Calvary Chapel. They are a great movement, and have definitely impacted the world.
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  11

  Muslims can never live North of Artic Circle

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  muslims can never live north of artic circle - or south of antartic circle - because in summer sun never sets - and if ramadan falls in summer , they could never eat or drink - because only supposed to after sundown .

  which raises a question - would be difficult for jws because even in april - days are long and hence difficult to pass emblems around until very late

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  XJW4EVR

  SInce Allah is the moon god of the ancient Arabian pagans, Ramadan only falls in the winter because the nights are the longest during winter.
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  17

  WAS THE LAST SUPPER REALLY AT PASSOVER?

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the memorial coming up (and all of you attending of course, haha) i wanted to post a topic that's been bugging me for quite a while:

  ok, we were all taught that the last supper coincided with the passover, which was required by jews to celebrate annually.

  however, i've got a couple of questions on this:

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  XJW4EVR

  The reason why the Gospel writers make no mention of the Seder meal is simple: they assume that you know certain things about the Jewish customs of the day. Why do they make that assumption? Because for the most part the early Christian church was comprised of Jews, and they assumed that the Gntile believers would have been schooled in the Jewish traditions during their discipleship in Christianity.