Thank You Narkissos. I never came across that point. Having that passage be an addition, removes the problem for me of trying to reconcile it with the gnostic elements. No need for the mental gymnastics. I think I may give the WT a run for their money on that count.
Midget-Sasquatch
JoinedPosts by Midget-Sasquatch
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87
What was Jesus implying...........................
by defd inat john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?
was it a claim to be almighty god?
what is your thoughts and why?
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94
After my un-DF'ing, I have sent a letter to everyone in my hall.
by kwintestal inin the final installment of my story, i am done with my local congregation now.
in the past month, i have been df'd, un-df'd attended a meeting where i shook everyones hand and smiled ... and now i have sent everyone in the hall this letter, roughly 60 addresses:.
open letter to the north congregation of jehovahs witnesses.
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Midget-Sasquatch
I think you did an excellent job with the tone of the letter too. I'm sure it'll get a few parents more sensitized to who's interacting with their children.
And I don't think the BOE will be making any announcements for a while. If a couple of pathetic elders really felt ridiculed by all thats transpired, they'll likely just keep the spy net active in the hope of finding something else to DF you on. I'd wager, as a body, they will be glad to leave well enough alone.
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87
What was Jesus implying...........................
by defd inat john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?
was it a claim to be almighty god?
what is your thoughts and why?
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Midget-Sasquatch
Another question is, what is really meant by the focus on "Jesus" and even by pistis in GJohn? Ascribing them the default "orthodox" use is perhaps misleading.
Hmmm. Thats bit of a stumper for me. I'm not sure how the gnostic views on salvation and the Revealer(knowledge for the release from hylic existence) could be brought together with the gospel's Lamb of God symbolism (atonement and salvation from sin). But like you said:
Perhaps there is some connection between the Johannine Revealer as "the light of the world" and "what has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people"...
Somewhere in John, Jesus said that if anyone didn't eat of his flesh or drink of his blood, they wouldn't have life in them. How does the following hodge-podge of mysticism and quasi-gnosticism sound? The life was the light of all....The channel to the "real life" only comes from communing (the blood/body as symbols of that communion) with the divine that is within.
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87
What was Jesus implying...........................
by defd inat john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?
was it a claim to be almighty god?
what is your thoughts and why?
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Midget-Sasquatch
What the WT doctrine does is correcting the unbalance in the wrong sense, i.e. lowering level (1) to level (2). But in the original (proto-Gnostic) context of the Fourth Gospel there is no doubt that level (1) is meant in both cases.
That idea, of emanations from the divine residing within people, is what piqued my interest in the different gnostic schools of thought. This gospel meshes in very nicely with that and with what mystics have said about their experiences.
I wonder though if there may be something to the orthodox view as well. And whether the author of the gospel would also accept it to a certain extent. That as long as the consciousness resides in the flesh the union can only be outwardly manifest in a limited way, primarily by showing a unity of purpose. Then in the afterlife, the union would be perfected by a merging of all into the deity.
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87
What was Jesus implying...........................
by defd inat john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?
was it a claim to be almighty god?
what is your thoughts and why?
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Midget-Sasquatch
I agree that the context does imply a unity of purpose between Jesus and his followers and Jesus and the Father. Mentioning the followers is the clincher that makes think there's more here than just Jesus claiming to be God. But yet, overall, the gospel points to Jesus being divine.
Origen believed that Jesus was created, and that of all the souls, he drew himself most closely to God. Through many eons he became identical to God in thoughts and motives.
I don't think its too much of a stretch to read that sort of union into John. That Jesus' followers can be one with him and the Father while still in the flesh, can still be a possibility in the facets that count most (trying to have the heart and mind of God). Maybe the gospel also is holding out the prospect of those souls later being drawn just as closely to God and being remade perfectly.
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19
Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton Mack
by ithinkisee insomeone mentioned this book in another thread (getbusyliving i think), so i checked it out from the library.. it is a decent enough book but was a little put off by the almost sarcastic/antagonistic tone throughout much of the book.
he throws around the word "myth" as much as the society throws around the word "truth".
even the title of the book "who wrote the new testament?
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Midget-Sasquatch
I've read those books by Ehrman too and also really enjoyed Lost Christianities. Our municipality's library is pretty decent but it lacks some other scholarly works on the NT and early christianity that I would also like to read.
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Were there any professionals in your congregation?
by JH in.
i was just wondering if you had any doctors, lawyers, pyschologists, psychiatrists, engineers or any highly educated ones in your congregation?
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Midget-Sasquatch
Only one professional in any KH I've ever been in. He had his Masters degrees in chemistry and taught a few courses at the college level. He also had work making dentures and bridges. Last I heard he had his own business in Northern Ontario. Quite a few college trained tradesmen though at the current congregation I'm officially in...electricians and HVAC experts.
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Dembski's defense: quote and link(s) for the non-dogmatic
by Shining One inhttp://www.designinference.com/documents/2000.11.id_coming_clean.htm .
ill come back to what it means for design in nature to have empirical content, but i want for the moment to stay with the worry that intelligent design is but a disguised form of creationism.
ask any leader in the design movement whether intelligent design is stealth creationism, and theyll deny it.
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Midget-Sasquatch
Shining One,
"Feeding frenzy" is an exaggeration. The critiquing process isn't just done to ID proponents. Remember "cold fusion"?
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34
From Fundementalist to Humanist
by peacefulpete in.
for your reading pleasure:.
from fundamentalist to humanist
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Midget-Sasquatch
Terry,
Sorry to disappoint you but, I watch FOX mostly for entertainment and less so for news. The same goes for the rest of the US networks because I'm Canadian. Over here I mostly watch GLOBAL and the CBC for my news.
Now and again, I've watched FOX's Tony Snow, as well as Chris Wallace. To me, they have a conservative bias but not as hyped up as its made out to be. Note: I'm seeing this through the eyes of a Canadian Liberal. I found their interviewing to be competent and fair, and a decent attempt at looking at the news/issues from more than one side. But then alot of the regular panelists are definitely pro-conservative. I've even heard that several journalists resigned from the network complaining about attempts at filtering some stories.
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34
From Fundementalist to Humanist
by peacefulpete in.
for your reading pleasure:.
from fundamentalist to humanist
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Midget-Sasquatch
Terry,
I understand what you're saying. Its like you're stressing the importance of basing our choices for how to live on this planet together, on info gotten from current well researched documentaries. But you're dismayed to see alot of people taking their cues and such from Fox Television. I guess the trick is to know when a smidgeon of the Foxumentaries apply to reality.
I enjoy a bit of both. Some narratives are simply impelling because of the characters and themes that are presented, whether they're "based on a true story" or completely made up. While I've always had a hard time believing alot of whats said in the Bible, or at a RC mass, or especially at the KH, there were times when I was moved by what was said in each of those three. Almost always it was something to do with our very nature.
I'm not going to follow some of the Bible's medical advice, but there's alot on vengeance and loyalty, and hope and empathy. You know where I'm going. Stories are an excellent millieu for considering the human condition. Ask any fundie why they go to a KH or church, you'll probably get alot of stuff about it being divine commands and the rewards for doing so. Yeah thats kind of a turn off for me too. But ask non-fundies why they go to a church, and I think alot will talk about bettering themselves. I can sit together with people like that. Until its almost time for some of my favourite television programs anyway.