well, i'm the last to know.. so i see the wt successfully sued quotes.watchtower.ca and won.. so now where can i find a website that contains quotes like the old site does?.
that's pretty sad he got shut down.. yiz.
The Quotes site was excellent as a tool to open people's eyes to the reality of the WT being uninspired.
It couldn't be deemed apostate since it only had material published by the WT. I wish I had kept a copy of the scan showing the reason the WT was suing the maker of the site. They admit that their own words were an embarrassment to them.
so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.
aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.
the only printing the us will do is the books.
I can confirm all truthlover posted.
Those points were mentioned Sunday of one of the District Conventions held in Kitchener Ontario.
it's been reported on this forum that bethel speakers at this summer's conventions are asserting that the establishment of the united nations in 1945 was predicted in advance by the witnesses.
this is being presented as validation of the claim that the witnesses are god's one true organization directed by holy spirit.. .
the basis for this claim originates with a public address entitled, peace - can it last given by n.h. knorr at the new world theocratic assembly, on september 20 of 1942. .
Excellent Watchtower references! Clearly shows exactly what Knorr and Rutherford thought would occur. Not even close to being prescient.
As always, great research from several posters.
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
Renaia,
What is it that you ultimately want for yourself and the world? A pain-free, peaceful life of harmony and to fulfill your potential? Alot of people who are humanists, agnostics, or yes even atheists want the same thing. Looks like many of them are making some headway in those areas. Of course it may never be the utopia many would like. One things for sure, a cult that just uses you and makes you think you're going to get those things will definitely keep you from making any genuine progress for yourself. You're just a battery for them.
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
As a witness I may not agree with someone's choice of religion but I give them the credit from having the right to that choice and my right to offer them the chance to view an alternative which I believe offers more.
I think thats a great approach. Thats what several of us posters equally claim to be doing. We're presenting information and letting people come to their own conclusions. Using terms like "search and destroy" is demonizing and the very tool the WTS uses to instill fear in jws so as to not even consider any of the info.
In their own words, they say that one should scrutinize their beliefs and see whether its true or not (of course this is advice for those who aren't witnesses yet). Once you're a witness though you've got to steer clear of this and stifle your critical thinking. Honestly they cannot refute the fact that what is accurate will always stand up to error. Then why are they afraid to have their claims questioned? Why do they deliberately keep info from us?
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
Renaia,
In line with what other posters have already mentioned, the idea isn't to simply destroy all faith but to enable people to break free from whats very likely a bogus hope. So the NT wasn't written specifically for the typical non anointed JW right? Only for the anointed. Jesus is not the typical rank and file's mediator. he's the mediator of the anointed. The Great Crowd can share in the benefits extended to them through the 144,000. Hmmm doesn't sound like its making people feel all that close to Jesus or God. They're a second class citizen that has to go through the anointed who conveniently are currently represented by the GB. How can you not see the potential for abuse here?
Take people like mindmelda. They have a personal experiential faith that puts them directly in commune with what they feel to be the divine. They don't need other men to be masters over their faith.
Simply setting dates that are wrong isn't "sinful." But using this as a tactic to keep people within your group and keep your cozy mode of living, is parasitic.
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
Edit: just wanted to shout out to sir82. Nicely put.
Next : Hi Renaia,
There's a reason I'm trying to take out charged words denoting either side as demonic or evil, or "destroying" people's faith. Not so much an attempt to "dehumanize" the organization and its leadership as you put it, but to de-mystify it. Its not the special and only channel of God that alot of people think it is. Its an entity on its own, thats not human but artificial. It coldly just does what it needs to do to keep existing.
I don't wish to destroy the individual old men on the GB. Just divest them of power over millions of people since they're obviously causing them harm. Maybe all of the GB are earnest in their faith. Then, I'm sure they're misguided if not deluded. I'm also certain some of the higher ups in the Org, especially in the writing and teaching departments are very aware of the facts on alot of lies and coverups so they are hypocrites.
We just want to take away their undue means of influence. If the Org can transform itself into something less cult-like, then I'd be happy for many current JWs. Then I wish them and any kind of leadership a long happy life.
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
Renaia,
Typically its the WTS to launch the first salvo, calling perceived enemies "tools of Satan". Of course passionate ones on the other side may respond tit for tat.
But lets put it simply. I've never seen Issac or others call the rank and file jw demonic. Just duped. And if someone is seeing another person being fleeced, and they have the average amount of empathy and standard idea of whats just or not, they're going to try to warn them.
Its not about destroying people. Its about dismantling a mechanism thats sapping people of their lives under whats very likely, false pretenses. We can say that the WTS is duplicitous because we have ample evidence of them covering up true information, if it could be harmful to their survival as an organization.
this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.
both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.
going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.
Oh Please,
Nothing is that black and white. Even the supposedly reformed Paul, kept alot of garbage as the status quo. If he was sincere, and in part I think there's a good chance he was, its very likely he was just suffering from routine bouts of temporal lobe seizures with his visions.
OTOH, he never spoke out against slavery. Instead, he used it as a model for his listeners to be submissive to.....guess who? Rome was one of them. He spoke a good game about living peacefully, again so as not to rock the status quo of the Roman controlled society of the time. A good argument can be made that Saul was a herodian of descent and so was self interested in neutralizing revolutionary movements like the zealaots and quite possibly the earliest Christian movements that were anti-establishment. Saul may have been duplicitous.
We're not like Saul or Paul. We're just disseminating facts and letting people choose for themselves. Of course, if the side (ie the WTS) cannot stand up to the reality and their losing ranks they'll see us as a destructive enemy. The WTS' own dishonesty and coverups are its own undoing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r4f9ygxdbk&feature=rec-hm-r2.
Thanks for letting me know he has Austrian descent. Its obvious Italian isn't his native language but the way he pronounces them mimics more how I've heard Spanish people speak it rather than germans. Anal detail as I said...but I definitely couldn't catch any hints of the gutteral german or austrian accent there.
