just curious about this question today and wondered if anyone else has pondered this.. is worship meant to be a reverent show of appreciation for life that god imparts to individuals?
if that's the case, and someone - by the mere accident of their birth - has a truly crappy life, why should these people worship god or show him "appreciation" for their unfortunate circumstances?
why should anyone who endures hardships worship god, particularly if they have been worshiping god and then all of a sudden a heap of trouble just plops into their lives, unannounced and unwelcome??.
IMHO, most religious explanations are based on the same principles as the Bush and Kerry exchange above. Focus on metaphors, so that you forget about reality
Can't argue with that. Many do use religion as a crutch. In fact I'm pretty much 99% in agreement with all of your points.
I'm just trying to be more of an optimist lately, so I'm trying to look for the good things in religion :)
just curious about this question today and wondered if anyone else has pondered this.. is worship meant to be a reverent show of appreciation for life that god imparts to individuals?
if that's the case, and someone - by the mere accident of their birth - has a truly crappy life, why should these people worship god or show him "appreciation" for their unfortunate circumstances?
why should anyone who endures hardships worship god, particularly if they have been worshiping god and then all of a sudden a heap of trouble just plops into their lives, unannounced and unwelcome??.
It's a simple mechanism. First imagine what you'd like God to be like. Then find a good analogy from the real world to illustrate it. And then "just replace" the spiritual with the real world entity. Finally, begin to feel the power of similarity, feel compelled to follow the reasoning, and act accordingly.
I can see your point about the deficiencies of analogies vs realities and the possible abuses of metaphors.
You might find Pascal Boyer's Book Religion Explained: The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought an interesting read. He argues that most religous thinking is a natural by-product of our minds normal cognitive workings. Agents (i.e. God) are linked by our minds to a short catalogue of fundamental categories/templates we use in our day to day lives like person, other living thing, man-made object. He also highlighted how many people then typically focus on the agent's reasons for doing this or that, and that these reasons always have to do with people's interactions with the agents in question.
Even if its arbitrary, maybe analogies are the more natural way for people to think about religous things. Can we separate out one from the other? I don't know. I think that the parent is one of the best analogies one can use and a god like a loving parent is one worthy of loyalty. Isn't the parent our first experience of very tender interactions, and also the most conducive agent to our healthy development?
i have found that jw?s and most former jw?s have a distorted view of how the holy spirit works.
after years of hearing the ?mind numbing?
phrase ?jehovah?s spirit directed organization?
I've always understood the application of Mark 13:11 to be to the individual dub. (Even though I've never really believed in it). I'd venture that all dubs believe that the holy spirit would help them individually in a time of need, to as they put it, "give a good witness". Mind you its the only one I know of.
I agree with all of you here about how the Bible is always talking about the Holy Spirit interacting with individuals, but how the WT has obscured this point, and promoted the idea of the HS working on the organization. Its all just another means of control and of elevating itself. How could they justifiably claim spiritual authority, if all its members were privy to the same "anointing"?
Thanks LT for all those scriptures. That clearly shows how the WT's self-serving attitude pre-empts an honest reading of the scriptures they claim to enlighten people on.
just curious about this question today and wondered if anyone else has pondered this.. is worship meant to be a reverent show of appreciation for life that god imparts to individuals?
if that's the case, and someone - by the mere accident of their birth - has a truly crappy life, why should these people worship god or show him "appreciation" for their unfortunate circumstances?
why should anyone who endures hardships worship god, particularly if they have been worshiping god and then all of a sudden a heap of trouble just plops into their lives, unannounced and unwelcome??.
I forget who posited this notion, but it was a take on recent observations in neuroscience. They claimed they found a part in the brain which they nicknamed the "God spot". The researchers linked it to the need to worship, to hearing or experiencing supernatural phenomenon, and the propensity to believe in supernatural ideas like God. So thats in line with what alot of pple have already posted here about the NEED to worship.
Again sorry for my memory lapse, but this one person claimed that this God spot evolved,...IIRC....1) as a way to work around the realization of our own mortality (and not be so paralyzed that we wouldn't survive long enough to reproduce) 2) to minimize the destructive impact a highly intelligent species as ourselves may have on each other.
So maybe in the earlier history of our species we needed to "worship" this "god" to ensure the success of the species as a whole.
Hey maybe the gnostics were really on to something with their idea of the demiurge?
got this story from a friend....last night, my friends and i went to a ladies night club.
one of the girls wanted to impress the rest of us, so she pulled out a $10 bill.
when the male dancer came over to us, my friend licked the $10 bill and stuck it to his butt cheek!
ok. most of us here at one time believed in the teachings of the wts.
thankfully most of us are beyond that.. i have noticed that at times i will find some other way, any other way, to avoid using the name jehovah.. and i know i'm not alone.
i see what you post!
When I hear or type Jehovah its very much like the reaction I have to someone I know but never felt I could bond with. I don't react much at all, but there is a definite urge to just avoid that one. The personality of the WT's Jehovah is one that turns me off, and I've always been to cool to that portrayal of a god.
Good thing this thread wasn't about the WTBTS because it would have given me a spastic colon!!
i've only in the last month started attending a non-denominational church.
i was absolutely shocked by what i experienced, and not because of the lightening i thought might strike me down as i crossed the threshhold.
while many were attentive and friendly, no one pried into my religious history, or tried to railroad me into coming back.
Oops...
ine hand over the other
...shoulda typed one hand over the other.
genuflecting --------> bending on one knee in a a sort of bow host ------> what they call the small round wafer they hand out
Wow from all the other posts I can see that the RC is right on up there with the JWs when it comes to complicating things!
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as a stay-at-home mom, i can occasionally find a few minutes every few days to play on the computer, but the amount of activity on this forum during us working hours is pretty surprising.
folks from other parts of the world notwithstanding, how are you american members able to post during work hours?.
I'm on-call. So sometimes my days are free.
Other days, I usually post early morning or late evening.
i told my mom that i tried to commit suicide and she asked me who was going to have a bible study with my son.
there was no other word's from her other than that.
not even a reaction.
That is either one cold sociopath or she's so spacey she just blocks out anything she can't handle. Either way don't feel bad about telling them to back off with the proselytizing....You need them to listen to you and understand whats causing you to feel that way. Ramming in all the dub doctrine hasn't been the answer or this situation wouldn't have arisen. Tell them you want breathing space.
I grew up in the dubs too ....Don't make the same mistake I did. I never went to a counselor because of the stigma it would have on my family. The gossip circles are horrid. I gave in/give in many times just to keep getting the CONDITIONAL love that they've been programmed to dole out. What sort of emotional toll will something like that ultimately take on you?
Focus on your self-worth first. It'll make you able to scrap with the best of the guilt trippers and trounce them.
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i've heard that it's changed hands and most of the jws are bailing... did someone from here take it over?.
alias
Czar, blondie thanks for clarifying that for me.
I'm still ignorant about all the stuff out there on the web.
Note to self: Not everyone uses/makes up nicknames for just about anything. I may have watched too much Seinfeld.
