in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".
we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.
the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.
Leolaia
Thanks for your answering my question so thoroughly! I too urge you to try for publication in a journal like Narkissos suggested. I realize academia is your passion, but with your gift for assimilating detail into coherent plausible wholes, you'd have made one super @$$-kicking police detective!
in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".
we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.
the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.
Deputy Dog:
I recall that the bishops Athanasius and Eusibius did write up lists for what works to include as canonical. In part, as a response to illegitimize sects, like the Marcionites.
Whatever may have been included in the agenda at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, I don't believe there is any confirmation that an official ruling on those lists were made. Athanasius may have pushed his lists then...thats something you can check up on...but I'm pretty sure the Council really just focussed on weeding out the views of Arius (i.e.Jesus was a creature) - and finding textual support for the now orthodox view of the nature of Jesus (i.e god in flesh).
in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".
we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.
the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.
A Paduan:
It wasn't Earnest, but me who thought you were talking about the trinity.
In the case of John 7:38, I would say that Exodus 17:6 belongs to a range of many texts which contain one small feature of the logion in John 7:38 -- in this case, it would be the pouring of water from a source for people to drink.I thought the obvious part was about striking the rock three times
I honestly read the above as your implying that the water from the rock was actually about water coming from God (hitting the rock 3 times as a veiled allusion to the triune God.) At least thats how I thought you were trying to argue a similarity. What then was the connection you were making? You'll have to give me more info.
Do you consider it likely that Clement simply read the Epistle of James?Just considering those two works alone, then yes that sounds reasonable. But it wouldn't explain how Hermas uses a very similar phrase to that in James 4:5, but then states its source to be the Book of Eldad and Modad. She is making tenable links between several works (not just James and Clement) and doing so with a very simple connection among all of them - one common source that provided much of the relevant detail.
my sister has a co-worker who's studying with jws.
he told her today that he was being told the the wt society was going to stop printing the awake this month.
and stop other publications soon.
I can still walk through some JW circles, and the elder (former bethelite who still has ties with people in Georgetown) and 2 MS (who have sons in Georgetown) have never mentioned anything about it.
This would be so big that they would have either sent a letter to all congregations or have an article in the kingdom ministry explaining the changes and why they would be 'spiritually' beneficial. Then again, maybe I'm too 'spiritually weak' to deserve this kind of info.
in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".
we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.
the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.
A Paduan,
As a compromise reached between my parents, once my father converted to the JWs, I grew up going through the catholic school system, at the same time "officially" living life as a dub.
I understand your referring to the incident at Horeb, with striking the rock 3 times, being a "veiled" allusion to the triune nature of God. So I see how you're linking Clement's writing of water flowing from the Father with that incident. If it were only that passage alone being argued, then I can see your take on it.
But there are some solid similarities between James and the clementine writings (especially with the the specific linking of "double-minded" with "wretched") which (even taking the trinity as a granted) can best be explained by their having used a common apocryphal source.
It was a very interesting read Leolaia. Thank You very much. A nice historical argument that batters the idea of a undisputed closed cannon.
A side question since I may be too ignorant to have grasped it: What in particular (other than the slightly different wording) leads to the conclusion that the later writing of Clement used that same common apocryphal source independently as a primary source, and not just have lifted that passage from 1 Clement as a secondary souce? Couldn't the changes in wording and the difference in detail just be due to the later writer quoting from memory?
...really made a huge impact on you?
one thing that gutted me as a jw was the realisation that they (the gb) had written the articles telling us how humble they were, that they were the "ruth class" or simply put "best class" etc, all the good people in the bible represented them, how humble is that?
it suddenly dawned on me after years of not realising it, how arrogant my leaders were.
There were already alot of things I didn't believe, and I had pretty much decided jws were just another man-made religion by the time I read CoC. Up till then, I could always excuse and make excuses for the GB. I thought they were delusional, but at least sincere and actually caring of others in a nutty kind of way. But after reading about the double standard with Mexico and Malawi, I was literally sick. I then saw most of the GB members as the callous power mongers, that they are.
once again, brothers try to strangely compensate for reduced attendance by roping.
off sections and compressing everybody into a smaller area.
is this nuts or what?.
Just a few years back, I was still being used as an attendant for the DAs (Why I don't know!!! There were middleschool kids taller than me). In an information meeting, the ones briefing us had some demonstrations.
One was how to try and cox some people out of sitting in the areas that were roped off. If they were elderly, we were expected to offer helping them get all the way down to the first 7 or so rows set aside for that group. Or offer to help them to the ice level and get a chair for them. If the person wouldn't move, we were to just let it be and report it back at the desk. The attendants really couldn't do squat. Actually all those demoes, from a guy bringing in a huge watercooler, to teenagers talking loudly in the the corridors were inspiring......I wanted to have a brass set of you know what just like those "uncooperative" examples!!!
worthless !.
forget all the jokes about the loonie ...it's not far off 1:1 (and heading that way) !.
http://www.x-rates.com/d/cad/usd/graph120.html.
Imagine if all the OPEC countries switch their petrodollars from the US greenbacks to the EURO?
Maybe then this Canadian's loonies will be able to buy some decent stuff across the border for a change.
...how do you cope when someone dear to you dies?.
i have felt this sense of total panic over me since my grandmother's passing earlier this week, because i don't know where she is or what is happening to her, if anything.
part of me clings to the jw indoctrination that she is just asleep, but i don't believe in the resurrection to life on earth anymore so that leaves me cold and empty.
I'm so sorry fleur for your loss.
I'd call myself a hopeful agnostic...empirically, I can't say if there is an afterlife or God. But I really do wish that both are real.
Narkissos verbalized my current views beautifully. Much of who we are can be attributed to the many encounters we've had with others. Those who we loved and who loved us, have given themselves to us in so many ways. They can help to shape our understandings, can give us tangible experiences with goodness, instead of a cold amoral existence, and give us the precious gift of feeling a warm connectedness.
If what we are is a unique fusion of behaviours, temperaments, beliefs, and memories then our loved ones can imprint those same parts of themselves on us. If we allow the very best of them to influence us, then they live on in our being, and they'd still be doing what is certainly their desire. To enrich our lives and make us realize there can be some goodness, some connectedness in life.
yes come one come all and wish our loved bird a ,,,,,,,,,,,, .
.
happy - birthday ,,,,,,,,you crazy bird
Happy B-Day / Buon Compleanno Candid!
