evergreen

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Posts by evergreen

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  14

  JW doctrine aside, where has your research of Christianity taken you to....

  by evergreen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i felt i would ask this question in the friends forum as it seems to get the most viewing.

  my question is this.

  leaving aside your research of what you have found out about the organisation and focusing more on your research of the "christian faith".

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  evergreen

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  14

  JW doctrine aside, where has your research of Christianity taken you to....

  by evergreen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i felt i would ask this question in the friends forum as it seems to get the most viewing.

  my question is this.

  leaving aside your research of what you have found out about the organisation and focusing more on your research of the "christian faith".

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  evergreen

  I felt i would ask this Question in the friends forum as it seems to get the most viewing.
  
  My question is this.
  
  
  Leaving aside your research of what you have found out about the organisation and focusing more on your research of the "Christian faith".
  
  
  
  
  
  
  What things have you discovered that you never knew before about Christianity?
  
  
  Do you feel that you are much more closer to God today than when you were a Jdub?
  
  
  Have you found another Christian denomination that you feel comfortable with and why?
  
  
  Do you feel that you are closer to finding the correct path or at least a path that you sense feels to be the right one? Why?
  
  
  and
  
  
  finally do you have a strong faith in the Bible or have you lost your faith in the Bible? and again why?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  At this time i have faith in Gods word. I know there are contradictions and things hard to understand and why God acted in certain ways throughout the old Testament, but i cant help being drawn to this book no matter what. It gives me personally, hope for the future; and without that hope, for me, there is nothing.
  
  
  So please write and tell me what you have learned through your own personal research and where your spirituality stands today.
  
  
  Thanks
  
  Evergreen
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  4

  Was there ever an article banning organ transplants

  by jambon1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have found an article in the wt library (about early 1980`s) which says that no diciplinary action would be taken against someone who receives an organ transplant.

  my understanding was that they did actually ban the brothers from having a transplant of any sort prior to the 1980`s.

  is this the case?

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  evergreen

  Im sure i first discovered this in Ray Franzes book Crisis of conscience and wasnt surprised, but i got more of a shock when i read how they viewed vaccinations as wrong way back. (I think it was about the 1930s or there abouts) perhaps someone can correct me.
  
  But God help all those poor children who must have suffered because of this crazy policy.
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  18

  Wow. A really great insider story...

  by DubBeachBabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the best-written and most insightful experiences i've read.

  if you're interested in how bethel's writing department actually works, and recent scandals, this is a thought-provoking story.

  i like this woman already.. it's very lengthy, so grab a cup of good coffee or a glass of wine, and settle in for a long read: .

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  evergreen

  Ive just finished reading this well written piece by Barbara Anderson. I found it to be very informative as to way the organisation is run.
  
  I was simply shocked at how they have and to a great extent still are trying to brush child abuse under the carpet.
  
  I especially liked her point that child abuse is a "crime" and not just a "sin" , which should be brought to the attention of the authorities immediately. Elders are certainly not trained in this field of "crime" and seriously need to realise right now that the society is just plain wrong in the way child abuse is being handled.
  
  There are far to many loopholes in their dealings with allegations and the 2 witness rule is a complete and utter joke. Like the blood issue, common sense and logic are thrown aside for Watchtower dictatorship!!
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  22

  Jesus said his load would be light, the Witnesses made that load very heavy

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i always remember being told that the load jesus expected of his people was not something that should be a burden and basically if you think about the core to christianity, it is not.

  basically, jesus said to love one another and to treat others how you would want to be treated and to respect the life you have.

  i don't ever remember jesus saying, "have 5 meetings a week, two assemblies a year and one convention.

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  evergreen

  Often i used to think "is it just me" when the scripture was mentioned about our load being light etc....at assemblies meetings etc.
  
  
  I would then run through everything that was involved in being a Jdub.
  
  5 meetings a week (Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday) Field service (average 2 days a week including Saturday), Study preparation and preparation for parts at the meeting every week ( Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays, usually evenings).
  
  All this whilst having to work for the week to provide food an shelter for the family.
  
  Now i can see it wasnt just me and feel sorry for those stuck in that " Heavy and burdensome Rut".
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  18

  Wow. A really great insider story...

  by DubBeachBabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the best-written and most insightful experiences i've read.

  if you're interested in how bethel's writing department actually works, and recent scandals, this is a thought-provoking story.

  i like this woman already.. it's very lengthy, so grab a cup of good coffee or a glass of wine, and settle in for a long read: .

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  evergreen

  Thanx Dbb , i have copied it to my files and will read it next on my list of peoples experiences.
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  6

  Question on the handling of child abuse by the elders.

  by evergreen in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  hi, i hope i can clarify this as i was unsure if what i had been saying was correct.

  my wife, her friend and i got into a discussion about child abuse.

  i mentioned that if a child said that a brother had been touching them on a number of occassions in an inappropriare way and you then brought it to the attention of the elders; they chat with the individual concerned and are happy that this person hasnt done anything despite the fact that the child explained in detail exactly what he did.

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  evergreen

  Thanks for making that a bit clearer for me folks.
  
  Thanks for the scenarios lady lee. It scares me to think how easily each of these scenarios can happen so easily.
  
  It is no wonder that there is so much discussion on this topic. At least i have given the Mrs and her friend some food for thought.
  
  It is just short of incredible the way the society deals with this problem. Whats more as Blondie says they are not qualified for this type of accusation and it should be left to the professional social services who are experienced and qualified in such important matters.
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  6

  Question on the handling of child abuse by the elders.

  by evergreen in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  hi, i hope i can clarify this as i was unsure if what i had been saying was correct.

  my wife, her friend and i got into a discussion about child abuse.

  i mentioned that if a child said that a brother had been touching them on a number of occassions in an inappropriare way and you then brought it to the attention of the elders; they chat with the individual concerned and are happy that this person hasnt done anything despite the fact that the child explained in detail exactly what he did.

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  evergreen

  Hi, i hope i can clarify this as i was unsure if what i had been saying was correct.
  
  My wife, her friend and i got into a discussion about child abuse. I mentioned that if a child said that a brother had been touching them on a number of occassions in an inappropriare way and you then brought it to the attention of the elders; They chat with the individual concerned and are happy that this person hasnt done anything despite the fact that the child explained in detail exactly what he did. What would you do?
  
  My wife and her friend both agreed that they would take it further and go to the social services if they werent happy with the judgement by the elders. I then said to them, even though the elders , your spiritually guided councellers had already dealt with the situation. They both then said that if they strongly felt that their son or dauhgter had been abused, they would take it further.
  
  I then told them that they would be either marked or reproved for doing this. They both recoiled back in horror saying i was talking total rubbish. I then mentioned to them that that appeared to be the case on the panorama programme a few years back and that after the programme had been shown , a letter was read to the congregations in the uk saying that in view of the programme that had been aired last week, it was the policy of the society to follow the bible command that there had to be 2 witnesses to bring a case against the accused.
  
  They both said, "so you mean to tell me that if i wasnt happy about the way the elders dealt with the situation and i went to the social services that i could be reproved" . I said pretty much so, They just kept saying that was rubbish and my wife wanted to even ask the PO if that was the case. I suddenly realised that the coversation was getting a little bit over my head and said i wasnt completely sure if that was the case but at the very least they would be watched because they had gone outside of what the elders had decided.
  
  So, can anyone please clarify for me if a person can be reproved, marked or watched by the elders for doing this?
  
  Thanks
  Evergreen
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  120

  September KM - 70 alterations in Revelation Climax Book

  by dozy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i can't find a thread on this subject yet - if there is one , please delete this one.. the september kingdom ministry has a 4 page insert detailing the 70 alterations in the revelation climax book which is due to be studied at the book study shortly.

  i'll provide scans if anyone is interested.. i will leave it up to more experienced analysts to examine the reasons for specific changes , but just a few brief observations for now:.

  p32 box - "they were completely exonerated" changed to "charges against them were dropped" - interesting change of terminology for the 1918 watchtower eight.

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  evergreen

  Hey everyone, To those who have relatives still attending. How about bringing up a conversation about the revelation book with them in a subtle way, to which they will obviously reply that the revalation book is going to be studied again at the group study. Something along those lines.
  
  Then mention innocently, "oh thats interesting, i wonder if the society have any new light on revelation as they are studying it again". But would need to do it before the Km for sept comes out. That way they might thing "gulp" thats a lot of changes. What do you think??
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  20

  Witnesses View - Council of Nicea (serious thread)

  by Confucious in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  ok.... just trying to find a better understanding here.... no stupid posts like, "...because it's the governing body.

  " - please.. ok.... how do the witness justify the bible and at the same time condem catholicism et all.... i mean, the books in the bible were picked by the council of nicea - which according the the witnesses - were part of the great appostasy and sanctioned by the same group of religious leaders they condemn..

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  evergreen

  I am currently reading a fascinating book that covers this subject in very clear detail. It is called "The Bible, (The making and impact of the Bible) A history" by Stepen. M. Miller & Robert. V. Huber
  
  This book is most definately worth a read. You can read this book and make your own mind up as to how you view the bible, but personally it strengthens my faith in the scriptures.
  
  One of the points that is made when the decision was made to put the new testament writings together was that most of these books were already well known and circulated among the christian congregations from the beginning of the first century onwards. In the early 200s The theologian Origen even took a poll on this. His findings were a stepping stone to new testament canon. He divided his list into 3 parts .
  
  1/ books that were widely accepted
  2/ books that were questionable
  3/ books that were viewed as unreliable
  
  Books that were widely accepted by Christians were the 4 gospels we now have, The 13 letters of Paul that we now have, acts,1 peter, 1 John and Revelation
  
  Books viewed as being questionable were Hebrews, James, 2 peter, 2 and 3 John and jude.
  
  Books that never made it into the new testament were Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Egyptians and Gospel of Mathias.
  
  The point is that from long before the Council of Nicea, the early Christians already had these books in circulation at a time when even some Christians could actually tell other Christians that they remember, or at least knew someone who could remember some of the apostles that had been preaching to them including Paul.