AlmostAtheist

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Posts by AlmostAtheist

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  18

  What are some common misconceptions about JW's among ex-JW's?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we come out of the org.

  we caught them in lies.

  they stole our time, our money, our families from us.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>I didn't follow Leolaia's posts on the 144 000 but come what may 1900 years is a long time and it's simply not credible that the Christian church could not gather 144 000 elite in that time

  In the minds of the JW's, only the first-century group count. After the death of the apostles, apostasy took over and corrupted everybody, leaving only that tiny little remnant to live on from year to year, unbroken, down thru the centuries. (Where they came up with that 'unbroken chain of annointed' stuff, I've never been able to even guess.)

  Gary: LOL, good point! They are a book-publishing house first. Then a real-estate empire. Then a law firm. Then....

  Dave
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  28

  Spirits of the Dead - love this brochure

  by moomanchu in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a fun brochure to read after you have been out for awhile makes you realize how crazy it all was.. i listed some good quotes, there's more.. .

  spirits have no tlived and died on earth (cept those bad angels before the flood).

  spirits exist!

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>*all* lies? everything made up? how can something completely made up spawn so many "evidences"?

  Not all things are either lies or truth. If you believe you have evidence for something and state it as truth, that doesn't make it truth. But it doesn't make you a liar, either.

  People aren't difficult to trick. Magicians make their living doing it. And they can even trick themselves. Anyone can see a ghost if they are willing to believe that any vague thing might have been one.

  But consider this: If CNN or any other mainstream news outlet could show actual evidence of a person having been harmed by an evil spirit, don't you think they'd jump on it? It would be the story of the century. But you never hear about it. Because any story someone tells about harm caused by evil spirits also has a rational, non-evil-spirit explanation.

  No, the people telling you about their evil spirit experiences aren't lying. They are interpreting events they witnessed. If you had the same experience, you might interpret it differently. As would I.

  Dave
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  55

  Nothing.

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  perhaps this paradoxical "topic" is one with which we here have dealt a little more, or a little more consciously, than the average population.. we used to have our heads full of beliefs (which we called "truth") in every direction: on theology, on cosmology, on paleontology, on past history, on so-called prophetic future, on heaven above, on earth, on she'ol beneath.

  on many things -- current events, traditions, other peoples' beliefs and behaviours -- we had strong opinions which were directly or indirectly (the famous "conscience" matters) part of the same deal.

  and of course our life was filled with activities and relationships, a community of "friends," people to "help" or "teach," etc.. then, gradually or suddenly, we came to suspect, often with a measure of terror, that all of this was not what we had thought and might sooner or later turn into... nothing.. this "nothing" is perhaps one of the most scary thoughts to people contemplating leaving the org one way or another.

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  AlmostAtheist

  Great post! Thank you for this! I have nothing to add. ;-)

  Dave
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  12

  "Roads Caller?"

  by watson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the speaker that gave our public talk today said that the men on the governing body were very smart.

  he said that albert schroeder could speak corny greek, and that frederick franz was a "roads caller.

  " i know what corny greek is, but i am not familiar with what a "roads caller" is.

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  AlmostAtheist

  My understanding is that Fred Franz took a test that he passed, thus qualifying him to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship. But the process never went further than that, and he was never offered anything. I don't have good references for that, but here's a web site talking about it: http://home.earthlink.net/~defender/de01006.htm

  Without scans or something more substantial that typed words, it's hard to say what's what. That's the best I've got at the moment.

  Dave
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  18

  What are some common misconceptions about JW's among ex-JW's?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we come out of the org.

  we caught them in lies.

  they stole our time, our money, our families from us.

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  AlmostAtheist

  We come out of the org. We caught them in lies. They stole our time, our money, our families from us. They crippled our future. They hid child abuse. In short, they p*ssed us off, and now we'd like to see them with a black eye!

  So it's only natural that we might have a tendency to believe every bad thing we hear about them. They bought stock in weapons companies. They joined the U.N. The Governing Body are actually lizard-people. Some of what we hear is true, some of it isn't. But if we heard something early in our exit, and it's never been questioned since, we might still believe it. And getting caught by a JW saying something against the 'tower that turns out not to be true would seriously enforce their "apostates are liars" view of us.

  The one that bit me most recently was the idea that the 144,000 MUST have been filled already, since there would certainly have been more than 144,000 Christians in the first century. But based on realistic population projections for that area of the world at that time, it's actually quite believable that there would NOT have been 144,000 Christians. (Thank you, Leolaia!) (Those same projections show that the multi-thousand-person baptisms recounted in Acts were exaggerations.)

  So, in your experience, what are some tantalizing-but-false ideas that ex-JW's entertain against the Watchtower?

  Dave
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  33

  WHAT IS BIGGEST TRUTH IN THE TRUTH?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any ideas?

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  AlmostAtheist

  They teach that the human body is everything that a person is, there is no separate spirit that co-exists with it. I believe that's true.

  They believe that a person that doesn't go to every meeting, doesn't study, and attends college is more likely to leave their religion. I think they're right about that.

  They aren't Young-Earthers, they accept that the earth is billions of years old. Though that seems to disagree with the Bible, I think they have that fact right.

  Dave
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  12

  Happy Mother's Day To All The Loving, Caring Moms Here!

  by Madame Quixote in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  happy, happy mom's day to you all!.

  from one mom to the rest!.

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  AlmostAtheist

  Happy Mother's Day!
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  23

  What can I possibly do..........

  by passive suicide in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am at a loss.

  i've finally realized what my heart has been questioning for many years...'the truth', quite possibly/probably...is not.

  meanwhile..........i have a wife, and child........both of which are firmly in the grasp of my former beliefs.

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  AlmostAtheist

  One thing you can and should do immediately -- reassure your wife that no matter what religion you or she follow, you love her and will remain faithful to her. Explain in excruciating detail that you married HER and your vows are to HER.

  The reason I say this is she is almost assuredly worried that 'leaving the Watchtower' means 'leaving morality'. She's been taught that apostates are crazed, drugged-up, immoral fiends. If you have apostate leanings (and she would surely interpret your recent actions that way, even if you're not sure), she will imagine you leaning more toward all the "worldly" things that the Watchtower warns about.

  It may not seem reasonable to you that she would tie these two things together, but I'd be willing to bet she does. Many exiting husbands have told me their wives thought the same thing. So please do let her know your feelings for her haven't changed, and questioning the Watchtower doesn't in any way mean questioning your marriage or your vows to her.

  Dave
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  20

  I can't talk to my parents.....

  by Adolfius in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as you can see from my posts i'm new here.

  i was born and raised in the borg....dad was/is an elder.

  i never liked the religion simply because it stopped me having fun like other "normal" kids.

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  AlmostAtheist

  Tread lightly, my friend. Like JGnat said, patience will take you places that rushing will never get you.

  >>Maybe showing how the society (run by old men that have never had families) are so against the family, to the point that you should disown a relative for being raped

  I don't think that's quite the policy of the Watchtower. Their policy is warped and crazy and can wind up making the rape victim into a criminal, at which point the victim may become shunned. But the likelihood of that is very low. The greater likelihood is that the victim would be privately reproved or perhaps publicly reproved, and would not be subject to shunning.

  Of course that's still a grossly inhuman way to act and flies in the face of love and decency. But your parents will (as any JW would) take you to task over the "disown a relative for being raped" idea, and you won't be able to defend it to their satisfaction. It will only serve to drive a wedge between you.

  I don't have a silver bullet for you, I wish I did. But that approach is unlikely to awaken them, and likely to close the door to future discussions that may wake them.

  As an aside, thank you for your service in Iraq. I'm deeply sorry that you experienced such horrific things.

  Dave
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  21

  Arguments about the flood.

  by Adolfius in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i posted a thread yesterday about evolution and population since the flood, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/134218/1.ashx and there were some arguments from the point of view of jw's that would be hard to counter....for me anyway.

  but it raised some other questions that i'd like some feedback on.. namely, is it just me who thinks it's just ridiculous that noah could've collected all the animals from across the globe and got them on the ark?.

  according to the united nations global biodiversity assesment, there are an estimated 1.75 million species on the planet.

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  AlmostAtheist

  It just embarrassing that I used to believe this.

  I know what you mean. At the very least, it serves as a reminder to us that even what we feel is proven is not necessarily so.

  One guy from YouTube whose name fails me at the moment (Kent Hovind?) claimed Noah took baby animals, since they're smaller. How the babies were expected to ever learn all the behaviors that only their parents could teach them was never explained. *roll eyes*

  Some fish require salt water, some require fresh water. Some hot water, some cold water. So lumping them all into one big, warm, semi-salty global pond just wouldn't work.

  Of course the Bible didn't say "species", but "kinds" of animals. The pro-flood group says you didn't need two German Shepherds, two beagles, etc. Just two "dogs". How a "kind" is defined is never explained. How the kinds became all the many species we have today in 4,000 years is never explained.

  The 2-versus-7 thing: The Bible says two of the unclean and seven of the clean. How clean/unclean were differentiated is never explained.

  And what did Noah do when he landed with his precious cargo of the only animals alive on the entire planet? Slaughtered a few, in thanks to god!

  Yeah, embarrassing.

  Dave