Posts by belbab

210

Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's loses comp case

church may be forced to pay millions

by jess wisloski.

belbab

Hey All,

Look at what ad Google brings up for this post. Handy Huh?

Company for compensation claims.

also the next one in th big blue box, Wrapping Christmas Gifts

The wt is getting wrapped up for a big Xmas present.

belbab

210

Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's loses comp case

church may be forced to pay millions

by jess wisloski.

The WT religious organization sells literature to the congregations, No? The congregations send money up front to pay for it. Therefore WT is in the publishing business, and receives remuneration for it. How can they then claim that the manual printing workers are working for a religious order under vow-of-poverty situations. The WT should have covered them for injuries, either with insurance or Compensation premiums and then charged the congregations the added cost of premiums.

They cover the cost of paper, electricity, presses, in their price of literature to the congregations, why not injury premiums. Would that not be the most loving, Christian way of doing business.

Do workers at Salvation Army good will distribution stores pay compensation for their workers, I know many get paid for their work, even some who do the kettle work at Xmas? The bethel workers do get paid, room and board and medical, dentistry, even chiropracters according to this lawsuit.

Any information, anyone?

belbab

20

Disfellowshipping - Pros and Cons

by Spectrum in

when i was a jw i remember believing that disfellowshipping was jws great and distinguishing feature.

great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented.

the congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.

belbab

The Watchtower with their tyrannical disfellowshiping policy have gone far beyond what is written. In the discussions on this board over several years, especially about the child abuse withing JW group, it has often been claimed by JW supporters that there is no more child abusers within their ranks than in other religious groups.

Yet they have always claimed they were a cleaner organization than all the rest.

Is disfellowsiping a good thing? I say, let the gb disfellowship everyone, and then the 12+ or --, spend the rest of their days picking lint out of their own navels, and bask in the sunshine of God's approval.

And in their downsizing they can use their ink producing facilities to produce more whitewash, because it is peeling off in many many places, and their abominations are being revealed.

I have posted before on disfellowshiping at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/33895/1.ashxI am having trouble putting in a second url, there is a part two to this post.

belbab

53

PROOF OF REBIRTH?

by Dansk in

jw
friends

rebirth, as opposed to reincarnation, is a fascinating topic and the following two stories have been taken from the tibetan book of living and dying by sogyal rinpoche (available from amazon books).

the second story, that of a child, came to the attention of the dalai lama and he sent a special representative to interview her and verify the story.

there have been many other rebirth stories published and the subject holds a special fascination for me.

belbab

I have studied the subject of rebirth for many years. In fact part of the reason for leaving the religion of JWs was because of past life experiences. When I have more time, I will post it here, along with one of my son.

I have looked at it from my own experiences , from scientific viewpoint, from Biblical viewpoint, eastern writings, native aboriginal viewpoints.

Funky Derek, regarding genetic explanations, many of the past life rememberances are the re-experiencing of traumatic death events. How can the rememberances be passed down through genetics if the person in the previous life by dying could not in any way pass down the genetic rememberances to his offspring? I welcom any comments you can give on this point.

I agree with comments above that children do not come into this life, with a blank slate.

Jesus said, (paraphrasing) that resurrected ones (ie those who stand up again) are like angels of heaven, neither marrying nor given in marriage. The only comprehension I can arrive at with this text is that, past life consciousneses influence the consciousness of the individual in this life. They are in the present individual's unconcious and can surface in times of crisis and influence us from the background so to speak.

There is a simple method to access these rememberances. One time in a group of about ten people, young ones and older ones, some former JWs, when I told them about this, they said try it on us. More than half of them had experienced surprising rememberances that stunned them.

Dansk, it is fine to search eastern writings for your discoveries. Most people do not want to go there. The evidence is close to home, probably within your self, or members of your own family.

I consider that one of the greatest needs, at this time in history, is that people come to a firm realization that the sting of death will be no longer. Not that falling asleep in death disappears but the sting, the pain, the sorrow of death will be no more.

One last quick comment. The Scripture about the debtor where a man owed a tremendous amount of money, and the master forgave him. That forgiven person then went out and tried to choke one denarious from someone who owed him. One denarius is one day's wage. Jesus told the man whose debt was forgiven that he would have to pay back every last denarius. If you calculate the time at one denarius a day, he would live many many days past one life time of 70 years.

belbab, gotta go,

16

David2002, "Bible as the authority" thread...

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

first, i would appreciate it if we could agree on a translation other than the nwt.

on to the doctrines; i would appreciate the full scriptural basis for the following doctrines.

you may take as much time on each point as you feel you need to and consider any information you want in arriving at an answer, but i would prefer it if the answer is from the scriptures.

belbab

I would like some clarification on something.

Do you mean that I or some JW should give replies that only support the Witness doctrine by only using the Bible Scriptures?

Can scripturally based replies, to the above questions give arguments contrary to the Witness dogma?

If it is only arguments of support, no or few replies will be forthcoming unless Scholar, BS & Religious Studies shows up.

If contrary arguments are allowed, then many replies will arrive, but each question will take some time to explore fully. I expect this will be a long time thread.

belbab

12

How long are your....

by hamsterbait in

i have noticed that the longer i am on this board, my posts (hmmm... what were you expecting?

) are getting shorter.

i want to cut to the chase quicker.. remember the days when you agonized and ecstasied over every full stop and comma, and tried to argue and defend every imagined counter point?.

belbab

There is a reason for short posts.

Take for example newspaper articles. First a headline, brief as possible. Then first paragraph, summary of whole news event. Each paragraph adds a little bit more. You can stop any where in the article and get a picture of what is printed.

The WT society once had a magazine size document that gave instructions for Public Relations Servants. Anyone know where to get a copy?

Gotta stop now to avoid long post.

belbab, the usually windy one.

17

Advice, please! Concerning the 2 witness rule

by whyizit in

jw
friends

my friend, who is not yet baptised in the wt, but is well on her way and very defensive of the wt, kind of led me into a conversation about how there has to be two witnesses for immoral acts, etc....(i guess someone recently got caught with another guy's wife, and it took a little detective work, because there has to be 2 witnesses.

) i brought up child molestors.

what does the wt do in those cases?

belbab

Whyizit, and all,

Just as the Watchtower has misrepresented medical information to support their blood policy in order to avoid financial liability and court cases,

they have also misrepresented Bible teaching to cover their butts.

Go to: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/24050/1.ashx

I truly do not understand why people who want to expose the horrendous coverup of child abuse policies of the Watchtower do not grasp this:

The Bible has cases where One human witness with an oath to Heavens above are sufficent to establish guilt or innocence.

Please, folks, try and grasp this, and make it known. Don't continue to be brainwashed by their widespread proclamation of the two witness rule.

In the Walsh case in Scotland, years ago, they tried to establish in the courts that freedom of religion allows them to tell lies. They claim telling lies is OK for theocratic warfare. In the meantime, innocent lives are being burnt as a burnt offering to their Holy Gawd,

belbab, with emphasis on emphasis

21

A Morbid Question: What Could Crush You Dead???

by sixsixsixtynine in

maybe i watch too many cartoons, but i always worry about falling boulders.

belbab

The enormous daily dumploads of posts on JWD.

Overwhelming!

belbab

1

A Legal Idea vs their Charitable Status

by Gerard in

the wtbts exists and dodges taxes because it is registered as a

public charity.

we could kick them in the nuts if such status is revoked.

belbab

I think that if enough exJayDubs who were literature servants explainded to the IRS how the WT is misrepresenting their distribution of literature, saying it is free with one hand, then holding out their other hand for payment, they would be far more interested, cause their is a smell of money.

belbab

34

What Happened to the Downloaded Info from Kents Site?

by NewLight2 in

jw
friends

i thought that someone(s) were working on getting that info back up on the internet.

if it is up and running, where is it at?

.

belbab

Kent Steinhaug was a exJW, a newspaper reporter in Norway. He was a firebrand, harassed constantly by the Watchtower. He is the one that collected all the BOE letters and posted them on his site: The Watchtower Observer. He eventually got tired, tried to get someone to take over the site, but no one did I believe. He also created plenty of turmoil on this board and eventually. My opinion that WT trolls harassed him on this board until he exploded with violent anger.

Here is some info from Watchman Expositor

The Watchtower Observer vs. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

Kent Steinhaug, a former Jehovah's Witness in Norway, frequently posts documents embarrassing to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society on his Watchtower Observer Web site (

). His posting of such files as an alleged copy of the Watchtower's Branch Office policy manual, as well as a letter in which the Society allegedly tells the Czechoslovakian government that they do not forbid members from obtaining blood transfusions or performing civil service, has been ignored by the Brooklyn headquarters and thus their authenticity cannot be verified (Steinhaug refused to comment on the documents). His posting in 1996 of the copyrighted Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, however, quickly prompted an angry response from the Society that resembles the Church of Scientology's earlier reaction to the posting of secret documents on the Internet.

Steinhaug has carefully documented his history of inciting threats of legal action from Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1995 a number of Jehovah's Witnesses operating a private e-mail group infiltrated by Steinhaug unsuccessfully petitioned to have his Internet access revoked ("How Do JWs react to an E-mail?" ). When he violated copyright laws by posting the entire elders' manual, the Society itself quickly threatened legal action against his Internet Service Provider, Telenor Online AS ("English Translation of Leter (sic) to Telenor Online." ); the manual was shortly thereafter removed from the site ("The Watchtower Observer - 'Pay Attention …" ). Nonetheless, on March 4, 1997, Steinhaug and another Norwegian critic of the Watchtower were summoned by police after the Society filed a complaint for violation of copyright laws ("Ex-JWs Summoned to Police Station," ). Just as in the Internet war between Scientology and its critics, however, the manual can now be found on numerous sites around the world (Steinhaug provides several links on his Web site).

Steinhaug insists that he did not violate copyright because a privately distributed work cannot be copyrighted ("Kent Steinhaug and Copyright," ). The Watchtower Society will likely argue, should the dispute result in further legal action, that any original and fixed work of authorship may be copyrighted, even if it remains unpublished (Title 17, US Code, Section 102).

Steinhaug makes a more interesting argument for his actions on the basis of civil disobedience. He states (with regrettably hostile rhetoric) that the Society has no reason to be alarmed by his posting unless they are attempting to hide their regulations and disciplinary procedures from public scrutiny. He unfortunately weakens his position by asserting that the Watchtower is censoring free speech by copyrighting its publication ("A Letter to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses," ). A more cogent argument would be that the Society capriciously reduces examination of its practices through the highly restricted distribution of this publication.

It is telling of the secrecy, and frequently the hostility, with which the Watchtower Society handles its followers that drastic action was required to expose the Society's official justification and methodology for discipline. Kent Steinhaug's posting of Pay Attention… allows for an unprecedented look into the secret workings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the ramifications of its actions in the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses.