Posts by wiegel

50

Over 160,000 Simply Left The "Truth" Last Year

by minimus in

jw
friends

that was the comment that a former elder made at the local meeting today in his comment.

evidently, he and his wife heard a bethel speaker's comment during his talk say that (i believe the figure was) 167,000 people did not get disfellowshipped but simply left.

the ex-elder made it a point to say that the elders should be watching to help out the flock before they up and leave.

wiegel

I'm going with Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" when he said "You can't handle the truth". They don't have the truth and they can't handle it if it's shown to them. To some who ask why I left, I have to tell them that I can't tell them, and that while I was still in, I couldn't talk to anyone about it. I HAVE however, been telling witness family and friends who will talk to me, that I DID NOT LEAVE because I'm gay, which has been a major "assumption" of many.

My leaving had nothing to do with my being gay, but everything to do with finding out that it has all been a lie. I am still not d'fed although over the past few years I have told many that I no longer believe that it is God's organization. I think I still have some "spititual clout" due to a family member who is a prominent elder in my old cong. Don't think he will ever push to get me kicked out because he is under pressure from non-believing family to not upset the apple cart by shunning me and making family get-to-gethers (I hate that word) difficult.

trudy

24

My Story

by DaveNwisconsin in

i wanted to share with people my story about the witnesses.

when i was five my mother had been searching for a new religion.

she was brought up catholic and didn't understand the church.

wiegel

Welcome, Dave, and thanks for your story.

44

Do You Appreciate Getting Insider JW Information???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i do.

i'd like to tell all of you active jw spies that i appreciate it when you tell us the latest.

wiegel

ABSOLUTELY! Thank you to all who spill the scoop here, it helps me with dealings with my witness family members.

63

January 15 WT : Beware of Apostasy

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

hi all, this post comes from the e-watchman site, when i get the mags, i will post further.. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=433.

the following is taken from the watchtower of january 15, 2006, page 23 under the heading 'resist the foremost apostate': .

'because of listening to the devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized.

wiegel

Welcome Sentient! Great post and one that many of us agree with, me for one....stick around, I look forward to hearing more from you. Trudy

39

Dumbing down of WT literature can be measured mathematically.

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

every magazine on the news stand is very carefully aimed at a target market.. .

it has long been known that how information is presented makes a big difference to who will read it.

you will agree that the ny times or scientific american are more erudite than the national enquirer or the toronto star.. .

wiegel

HB - this is great! I guess that's one way to hang onto the "weakest" of the bunch - mentally speaking. If you feel talked-down-to, you're not likely to stick around forever. So it becomes survival of the weakest. Easy to lead, easy to control...............

35

Is Christmas for fun?

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

given that so many practises associated with christmas are blatantly christian in origin but christianity endorses spiritual self-flagellation/crucifixion, moderation, and enough "-isms" to make your eyes water, is christmas truly for fun?

i know that often there are few christian connotations attributed to it nowadays, in such a hedonistic and sensory society, but history is on record in showing that the whole baby jesus thing is definitely a christian element.

would any true hedonist today want to drink such a mixed cup (potentially of poor-grade wine)?

wiegel

FUN and FAMILY -

38

I Appreciate Barbara Anderson

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'd just like to say that i believe barbara's a wonderful addition to this site and i appreciate all her contributions in her pursuit to expose the watchtower's deceit.

wiegel

Let's face it, this forum is a real smelting pot sometimes, with so many smart, thinking, feeling, hurt, angry, loving truth-seekers, that any "news" published here is subject to the most grueling scrutiny at the hands of its members. Personally, I not only enjoy, but count on, issues being hashed and rehashed to get at the truth. Most of us will not take anything at face value again for a long, long time, and I believe this is a good thing.

Barbara is, among other things, a woman, and that alone makes her my hero. Coming out of a church where girls aren't even allowed to "handle the microphones", Barbara shows us the truth about women. I love knowing that she worked at the very core of the beast and I bet she still refilled the empty toilet paper roll whenever she saw one (ladies, you know what I'm talking about - hehe!).

Brave doesn't come close to describing her defection, she is undaunted, and she is still the same person she has always been. Dedicated, honest, loving, kind, except that she is now free. And instead of running away from the controversy, she had hit it head on in her pursuit for justice.

Bash the "good news"? Still waters run deep, and this "old black water" keeps on rollin, very very deep - the ramifications of this "good news" are yet to come, but inescapable. Thank you, Barbara, for being you! You are awesome and I know you know way more than you are sharing with us even now. Please stick around!

Trudy (of the "girls can not only handle, but would "clean" those microphones, as well" class)

19

Naysayers and the "Big News"

by avishai in

jw
friends

many of us don't see the legal ramifications of this info., or even the importance of changing the blood doctrine.

915 people died in jonestown.

it's highly likely that as many, many of them children die per year as a result of this policy.. now, many have also lost heart about other cases, because there has'nt been much media attention lately, plus there was a post, or a message from bethel that stated that the wts won all the child molestation cases.

wiegel

I have not been able to get the entire essay "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions, and the Tort of Misrepresentation" to read yet, but reading the excerpts alone has given me hope for others.

How so? Only a few weeks ago, a member of my family who is a witness said "If my husband and I had "a sliver of a doubt that this was the truth, we would be so outta here!" Did she know what she was saying? Pretty loaded comment. What I heard is that they are "burdened, tired, worn-out, exhausted, and would love to dump the whole load".

"A sliver of a doubt". I know that so many feel this way and are just ready to bolt, I know that was me when I read CofC. It exposed the LIES, not arguing doctrine etc, but showing the truth about how it works at the top. LIES.

Now, what really hit ME while reading the excerpts from Barbara is this:

Excerpt #1 from "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions, and the Tort of Misrepresentation."

Government intervention into religious exercise through meeting this test is rooted in legal precedent. In Reynolds v. U.S., one of the first decisions limiting religious freedom, the Supreme Court upheld a law criminalizing polygamy because of the state’s compelling interest in protection of the family unit.

[3] Additionally, courts are now willing to allow aggrieved citizens to sue their church if it misrepresented a secular fact.[4] For example, one court has held a religious organization liable for misrepresenting its use of donated funds.[5]
Similarly, the Catholic Church became engulfed in a flood of tort law suits following revelations that some of its priests sexually abused minors and that the church allowed known sex-offender priests to continue their posts.[6] ......

I see the following quote as the real key to this new "tool" to expose the lies:

"The essay examines the State’s power to protect its citizens by allowing followers and their families to pursue legal action against a religion when it misrepresents secular facts which harmed the followers."

If this isn't loaded, I don't know what is. How about a financial accounting for the funds donated to the WWW (World-Wide Work)? How about an accounting for not informing their believers about the molesters in their midst? These are NOT doctrinal issues, they have to do with "secular facts". I am not a law student, but what I am reading seems to intimate that they may now be held liable for mis-information on a purely secular level - their "cut n paste" method of presenting their followers with half truths and statements totally out of context to further their own points.

And there there is DUMBO - wouldn't they love to get their hands on this info?

Well, that having been said, I think this is BIG NEWS, but it is just the beginning.........slivers of doubt to fill many quivers have just been ordered up.

328

Journal of Church and State: WT NO-BLOOD EXPOSE'

by AndersonsInfo in

(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.

this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?

the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.

wiegel

This is just the first domino to fall - MY THOUGHTS CLICK HERE.

BIG NEWS is first domino to fall - no doctrine - just plain ole lies!

by wiegel in

this is the first time i have started a post here.

i have not been able to get the entire essay "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation" to read yet, but reading the excerpts alone has given me hope.

only a few weeks ago, a member of my family who is a witness said "if my husband and i had "a sliver of a doubt that this was the truth, we would be so outta here!

wiegel

This is the first time I have started a post here. I have not been able to get the entire essay "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions, and the Tort of Misrepresentation" to read yet, but reading the excerpts alone has given me hope.

How so? Only a few weeks ago, a member of my family who is a witness said "If my husband and I had "a sliver of a doubt that this was the truth, we would be so outta here!" Did she know what she was saying? Pretty loaded comment, what I heard is that they are "burdened, tired, worn-out, exhausted, and would love to dump the whole load".

"A sliver of a doubt". I wonder how many of them feel this way, how many would latch onto something to set them free. I think there are thousands, and I was one of them. CofC set me free because of the way "secular facts" were exposed, appealing to my intelligence.

Now, what really hit ME while reading the excerpts from Barbara is this:

Excerpt #1 from "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions, and the
Tort of Misrepresentation."
Government intervention into religious exercise through meeting this
test is rooted in legal precedent. In Reynolds v. U.S., one of the first
decisions limiting religious freedom, the Supreme Court upheld a law
criminalizing polygamy because of the state’s compelling interest in
protection of the family unit.
[3] Additionally, courts are now willing to allow aggrieved citizens to sue their church if it misrepresented a secular fact.[4] For example, one court has held a religious organization liable for misrepresenting its use of donated funds.[5]
Similarly, the Catholic Church became engulfed in a flood of
tort law suits following revelations that some of its priests sexually
abused minors and that the church allowed known sex-offender priests
to continue their posts.[6]
......

I see the following quote as the real key to this new "tool" to expose the lies:

"The essay examines the State’s power to protect its citizens by allowing
followers and their families to pursue legal action against a religion when it misrepresents secular facts which harmed the followers."

If this isn't loaded, I don't know what is. How about a financial accounting
for the funds donated to the WWW (World-Wide Work)? How about an accounting
for not informing their believers about the molesters in their midst?
These are NOT doctrinal issues, they have to do with "secular facts".
I am not a law student, but what I am reading seems to intimate that they
may now be held liable for mis-information on a purely secular level -
their "cut
n paste" method of presenting their followers with half truths and statements
totally out of context to further their own points.

And there there is DUMBO -
wouldn't they love to get their hands on this info? I guess I'll send
it to them.....

Well, that having been said, I think this is BIG NEWS, but it is just the beginning.........slivers of doubt to fill many quivers have just been ordered up.