Posts by binadub

14

Are Jehovah,s Witnesses unique.

by jam in

jw
friends

can you think of one single thing that set them apart.

from other religious organization.

witnessess love to.

binadub

The one consistent doctrine that is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses, which is also unique in that they have not changed it, is that the so-called "Gentile times" ended in 1914.

They did change the 1914-End-of-the-Gentile-Times doctrine from predicted to be the end of the last generation to being the beginning of the last generation in the late 1930s.
They have to be careful with this because it tromps their claim that they were selected by Christ as the "faithful and discreet slave" in 1914 because they were the ones who (according to them) recognized Christ coming into his heavenly kingdom in that year, when in fact they believed at that time that the parousia had occurred in 1874.

But to my awareness, Jehovah's Witnesses are the only religion that teaches Christ's invisible presence in his heaevenly Kingdom since 1914.

~Binadub

14

How to get around 2 John 9-11

by WildeLover in

i have a query about this section of scripture that deals with shunning and dfing according to the washtowel, bile and trash society.. i tried to speak to a friend on this.

and she came back at me with this and i was stumped.. if i commit a sin against god and am dfed, theni have grossly offended him.

thus jws as friends of god would shun me as i have wronged god.

binadub

The instruction at 2Jn.2:7-9 is quite specific. Is simply says to not welcome anyone who does not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

The thing to realize is that at that time, Christians gathered in homes and held their fellowship meetings there. The gatherings revolved around a meal ("love meal") and emblems of remembrance of the resurrection on Sunday, the day of the Festival of First Fruits.

~Binadub

33

Nothing More To Say

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i really have nothing much more to say, except to say thank you to all the people who have contributed to me in my threads and all the people whom i battled over the years.

the battles have been most entertaining and enlightening.

i've learned a great deal from them, and i've laughed a great deal from the idiotic attempts of fools to make a coherent argument (think "dubs").. it's been a roller-coaster ride for me over a decade and it has consumed a huge amount of my time.

binadub

Farkel:

I tried to PM you, but I must be doing something wrong.

If you see this, send me an e-mail at [email protected]

I have been wanting to communicate with you. We have some things in common (besides our years-long on the Net. :-)

Hope to hear from you . . .

~Ros
(aka Binadub on JWN)

1

People of Faith, thoughts on Jesus rebuking the wind at sea.Matt;8 and Luke 8

by jam in

ok folks, we have men who knew the sea and the danger, so.

it,s safe to say the storm in matt; 8;23-27 was not a small one.. the boat was in danger of sinking, water pouring in and where.

was jesus, asleep.

binadub

It,s strange, though that they don,t understand who he is, why did they even wake him if they didn,t think he might be able to do something?

It is a misconception that the bible and gospels represent Jesus as being known as the Christ of God's heavenly kingdom throughout his ministry. The apostles probably believed they were following a rabbi who was carrying on the ministry of John the Baptist.

It would be presumptuous to pretend to know exactly what the apostles were thinking in the storm. It could only be speculation without scriptural support. But the fact is, according to scripture, the apostles did not yet realize who Jesus was. He was known as a rabbi in the Galilee who performed miracles and healed the sick, but there were others reputed to do the same. As a descendent of the line of King David, and the time being what was believed by many to be the prophetic time when a messiah king was to restore the throne of David and liberate the Israelites from pagan rule, they believed (hoped) Jesus was that promised messiah, "King of the Jews."

Through most of his ministry, Jesus did not claim to be either the Christ (messiah) nor King of the Jews, as it was sedition and a capital crime against Caesar and Roman rule to claim to be King. It was fairly well known that Herod was seeking him because he believed Jesus might be a resurrected John the Baptist. (That's one reason they were crossing the sea to the Greek pagan country on the other side--to elude Herod. Incidently it is also a myth that Jesus did not minister to nonJews as in the case of two trips to the other side of the Sea of Galilee where he banished demons from a man into a herd of swine (Jews did not have herds of swine), and later fed thousands.) It was not until his last journey to Jerusalem, in the final couple of weeks or so of his ministry, that he revealed who he was by allowing Peter to confess his faith when they were on the pagen site of the Greco-Roman God Pan at Caesarea-Phillipi (Banias). The site on which Jesus asked Peter, "who do you say I am?" was on a place (rock) that was considered the pagan seat of the underworld (hell). When Peter replied to Jesus' question that some people thought he was the resurrected Elijah, or Jeremiah, or as Herod feared, the resurrected John the Baptist, or other prophets, Jesus responded, "But who do you say I am?" Peter confessed that he believed Jesus was the Son of God, the Christ. Jesus replied that it was God who had revealed that to him. Jesus never made the actual claim, and Jesus warned Peter and the rest of them not to be telling people that he was the Christ (Matt. 16:20; Lk. 9:21). Realize, this was in the last days of his ministry. The full revelation of who he was and his kingdom being heavenly rather than the restoration of David's earthly throne, this was not clear until 50 days after Jesus' death, at Pentecost.

~Binadub

40

Kingdom melodies / B4 Copyright/JW`s stealing melodies/anyone remember this ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

i can recall sometime ago in the 60`s 70`s or theirabouts,it when they first printed their own songbook must have been before the org.copyrighted their material,and the reason they did that is because some brothers were stealing the tunes ?

maybe modifying them and passing them off as their own for commercial gain?

( i know some of you are going to say wtf ?

binadub

TD:

"Songs to Jehovah's Praise -- that's the one I remember.

Thanks,

~Binadub

45

The three wise men

by Simon in

just a thought.... looking through the greatest man book, something just occurred to me which i can't recall has ever been highlighted (but please correct me).. i always thought it a bit strange that jehovah allowed the three pagan astrologers to find jesus especially as they were obviously guided to him by satan's star (remember they were led to herod first who wanted to kill the messiah).

what purpose did it serve?.

well, a few pages earlier in tgm book, we see mary presenting a dove as a sin offering at the temple - this was the cheapest offering that was acceptable which must have meant that they were pretty poor at the time.. shortly after the three wise men visited the family had to flee to egypt when herod started to kill all the young boys in an attempt to kill jesus.. what would they need to travel and live as exiles for a couple of years?.

binadub

This may have been mentioned, but there is no scriptural indicate that the number of wisemen was three. It just says that wise men from the east came to Jerusalem asking, "Where is the child ..." (Matt.2:1)

There was a large population of Jews in Egypt. The history of the Coptic church is older than that of the Catholics (Roman or Greek Orthodox). It is interesting that in order to find this information you have to specify “Coptic” if you do a search of Christian history. Otherwise a simple search of, say, “history of Christianity” will generally follow only the Catholic lineage, even though the Coptic church is older and alive and well to this day. They trace their papal lineage back to Mark (companion of Peter) as the first pope in the first century. They are known to be the first to have monestaries. For this reason, many biblical scholars believe that when Peter wrote his letter “from Babylon”, that it was not as the Catholics claim to be Rome, but rather literally from Babylon, Egypt, about 150 miles from Jerusalem. There is even a church in Egypt which is claimed to have given lodging to Joseph, Mary and the child Jesus. Also interesting, many if not most of the earliest bible fragments found are in Egypt. The first scholarly Christian school was in Alexandria, and records indicate that much was later inherited by the Roman church.

The real mystery—imo—is the fact that this escape to Egypt is recorded only in Matthew's gospel.
Luke, who is supposed to have been the most thorough in his account, records Joseph and Mary taking the infant Jesus to the temple to be circumcised and named 8 days after his birth (Lk 2:21-24). After Jesus was properly blessed by Simeon and Anna (Lk 2:25-38), it says:

When they had finished everything required by the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom; and the favor of God was upon him. (Lk 2:39-40).

That’s almost as strange as why a basic search of the history of Christianity tends to fail to mention the Egyptian source.

Here’s a pretty good link about it:

http://st-takla.org/Coptic-church-1.html

~Binadub

40

Kingdom melodies / B4 Copyright/JW`s stealing melodies/anyone remember this ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

i can recall sometime ago in the 60`s 70`s or theirabouts,it when they first printed their own songbook must have been before the org.copyrighted their material,and the reason they did that is because some brothers were stealing the tunes ?

maybe modifying them and passing them off as their own for commercial gain?

( i know some of you are going to say wtf ?

binadub

The first song book I remember had a green heavy-paper binding. That must have been the "Songs to Jehovah's Praise" song book (1950). I was piano player using that song book at our KH, and I recall it had some nice songs. At the last international assembly held in NYC Yankee Stadium and Polo Grounds (1958), there was an orchestra and choir who performed some very sophisticated and beautiful songs that were subsequently performed at district assemblies for a few years thereafter. The melodies were beautiful, but some of it had some unusual lyrics.

At the time I often accompanied a pioneer JW who was a musician. He was a jazz pianist who played in local night clubs with two others, which allowed him to pioneer during the day. He told me that the orchestra leader at MGM was rumored to be studying with Jehovah's Witnesses and that he may have had something to do with the special musical arrangements presented at those conventions. For whatever reason, those musical presentations at district conventions ceased about the time the 1966 song book was released.

I remember trying to play the music in the new book--it was very difficult because the melodies were not as intuitively normal as intuitive as most are. It seemed the new songs were written by amateurs. They were difficult to play and difficult to sing. The singing at the kingdom hall dropped significantly because people could not seem to follow the tune, and neither could the accompanyist (me). I missed the better songs in the previous song book and wondered why they were replaced. It was soon revealed that it was because the songs had not been written by JWs.

I became inactive a couple of years later, so I wasn't around when I heard they switched to not having a piano accompany the singing, but it didn't surprise me.

Anyway, that's my recollection.

~Binadub

218

Does anybody still believe in God and the Bible?

by tornapart in

i just want to know out of interest how many here still believe in god and christ and that the bible is god's word.

my faith in the wts is gone but i still love god and his son.

i've noticed that many here have lost their faith in god as well as the wts.

binadub

Yes--though not from the literal perspective that most churches teach.

I wanted not to believe on blind faith so I've researched the Bible from a secular perspective.

I find that there are too many "coincidences" in the Bible for it to be totally without inspiration, but that is a huge subject that cannot be addressed in a post or thread. If you want to discuss with skeptics, it involves faith, evolution, science, and archeological history of the civilization of mankind.
I usually do not try to persuade people who have converted to secular skepticism; it's like arguing with JWs and other people of devout denominational faith.

There are many exJW Christians of various religious perspectives. Check out ChannelC.org.

~Binadub

12

What is Knorr's legacy?

by drewcoul in

i was wondering, i am aware of most of the presidents of the wts being a born in.

i am familiar with how it started with ct russell and the tumultuous takeover by jfr.

i grew up in the franz era and left about 2001 (although not mentally out until finding this forum a year and a half ago).

binadub

One thing was that the Watchtower had been discouraging people from getting married because the "time was [so] short" and they should wait until they were in the "new system."

Then Knorr got married (to a woman quite a bit younger), and that caused a little stir among the flock, especially pioneers, special pioneers others who had put off getting married. Until then, it had been considered "immature" or "lacking of faith" to get married and have children, much the same as it was if people when to college. Couples were still supposed to avoid child-bearing though.

~Binadub

11

ALANF, JANH, KENT, NORM et.al.--WHERE HAVE THEY ALL GONE?

by binadub in

jw
friends

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binadub

Thanks for reminding me of another couple of names: Maximus and Amazing.

Yes, Amazing does still post occasionally on Channel C--under his real name.
Doug/Farkel - I understand from posts on this forum that he is having some serious health issues.

Maximus (a former DO) seems to have faded into the past.

When I refer to "back then" I mean even before JWD/JWN. None of those mentioned were ever as active here as they were on H2O and a previous List forum we nicknamed Jes-Wit (Jesus-Witnesses). Don't let the name fool you--it hosted exJWs who had adopted Fundamentalist religion, those who had not, as well as Skeptics and active JWs. There was at the same time a private List called Phileo that was only exJWs, regardless of religious perspective. All of the mentioned posters except Maximus and Amazing were very active on those forums. Amazing, Farkel and Max came along during the H2O days, but they were also quite active here on JWD for a long time.

AlanF, JanH, Norm, Kent, and others from that "era" seem to have vanished from the Net, especially from JW/xJW forums.

My thinking is that the current Watchtower religion and its teachings just do not challenge the interest of those who were JWs before 2000. They were JWs for entirely different beliefs and reasoning than the current flock. Biblical interpretation and secular chronology, among other things, were more at issue. Now it's more about unreasoning blind faith--just trust the F&DS. Reasoning does not sway the current JWs. The religion has become--imo--more of an esoteric social society than a doctrinal system. When you've said all there is to say about chronology and failed prophecies, arguing with blind faith seems rather pointless, whether its about religion, politics or evolution.

It's just interesting that so much has changed in little more than a mere decade, yet the blind keep leading the blind.

~Binadub