Posts by bjc2012

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know:

If the man of lawlessness comes from within the organization then that also means that it is Jehovah’s organization. It says that he sits down in the temple of The God. JEHOVAH'S TEMPLE IS THE GROUPING OF ANOINTED ONES

.Combined with this comment.

The "all" is all those who do not believe the truth.

So, according to you...the "ALL" JUDGED ONES who receive in the name of justice, the powerful "operation of error" from Jehovah are prophetically shown to be the "Anointed Grouping" of Jehovah's Witnesses of modern times, of which you are a part.

Is that what you are saying?

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know said:

is that it?

As if you answered the question...LOL. You got to be kidding.

Obviously, many who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses don't LOVE the truth. That should be evident just from the number of those who are unfaithful, and apostate, and what-have-you? Do those who are child molestors love the truth? Of course not. There are many who are not going to pass the test of faithfulness. Paul used the example, saying many came out of Egypt only to be laid low in the wilderness. I think we are going to lose millions once the judgment commences.

You have said, "many...JWs don't love the truth..."

But the verse clearly says, "ALL ARE JUDGED" and receive the "operation of error" from God as their just reward. (2 Thess. 2:11, 12)

"All," as in all.

Do you get it now?

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know:

If the man of lawlessness comes from within the organization then that also means that it is Jehovah’s organization. It says that he sits down in the temple of The God.

You say the "man of lawlessness" in among JWs today. But do you realize the actual weigh and import of making such a statement? I don't think so.

I notice when you explain a Biblical passage of scripture, you refuse to consider all of the verses in context on the subject. For example, the prophecy of the "man of lawlessness". I have reminded you on a number of occasions when we discussed this topic that you must consider all of the prophetic verses, including the powerful import of verses 11-12 of 2 Thess. chapter 2. The prophetic statement is quite explicit and particularly damning. Those verses say,

"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, IN ORDER THAT THEY ALL MAY BE JUDGED because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

To whom do the above verses apply?

Are you saying JWs "do not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness"? Are you saying that?

Is this how God sees the JW organization?

The prophecy is clear. It clearly says "ALL", as in all, will be "judged" by the Mighty Hand of God. And it is God Himself that "lets an operation of error go to them" to punish them everlastingly.

Does this apply to Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body?

What do you say, You Know?

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know:

Is that it bjc2012? / You Know

No...not quite.

The 34th chapter of Ezekiel doesn't make that sort of judgment. It doesn't even condemn the bad shepherds to death. It merely points out that at some point Jehovah is going to relieve incompetent shepherds of their positions over his sheep and more directly, personally, take over shepherding, through his servant "David."

Ezekiel 34:21 says,

"For the reason that with flank and with shoulder you kept pushing and with your horns you kept shoving all the sickened ones until you had scattered them to the outside."

First of all, whatever happened to elders being "appointed by holy spirit", as it was among first century christians? Have you abandoned that thought now, even in regards to the Governing Body? In your estimation, were they ever appointed by holy spirit?

Well, regardless, I'm afraid the word "incompetence" doesn't even begin to encompass the massive guilt incurred upon JWs at this point, and the wicked Governing Body and assistants at Bethel. The 10-year secret UN liason Scandal and the pervasive pedophile problem for JWs is just the "tip of the iceberg". Here's why.

You see an "incompetent" elder might make a few mistakes here and there. Maybe stumble a few by accident, but not on purpose. He's simply "incompetent", as you suggest. But he is not working DELIBERATELY to stumble or harm individuals, is he?

But what do you read above?

The verse says the bad "shepherds"

"... kept pushing and with your horns you kept shoving ALL the sickened ones until you had scattered them to the outside."

All. The word is "ALL".

The bad shepherds "kept shoving", repeatedly, until they had successfully managed to put out ... "ALL", "All of the sickened ones" -- and "scattered them to the outside" of the JW Organization.

That's what the verse says, You Know.

All of Jehovah's Sheep are "scattered to the outside" of the JW Organization. All!

So then, this is not the work of some one making a few mistakes here and there, a few persons of "incompetence" as you suggest. No, but unmistakably, this is the work and operation of "Babylon the Great" [aka WTS Headquarters] who is under the Satan-inspired auspices and direction of the wicked "man of lawlessness" [aka Governing Body of JWs] of Bible prophecy. (2 Thess. 2:3-12; Rev. 18:4)

So you are much mistaken. And Ezekiel 34:21 proves it.

One more point:

Because of the prolific practice of wickedness on the parts of the WTS and G.B., now and in the future, Jehovah's Witnesses will lose their "christian" standing completely with God. They will lose the "Christian" Covenant, and have to seek another to regain God's blessings. Here is the prophecy.

Jeremiah 50:4,5

"In those days and at that time is the utterance of Jehovah, the sons of Israel, they and the sons of Judah together, will come. They will walk, weeping as they walk, and for Jehovah their God they will seek. To Zion they will keep asking the way [because they are totally lost], with their faces in that direction, saying "Come and let us JOIN OURSELVES to Jehovah in an indefinitely lasting covenant that will not be forgotten."

They have been detached from God. That's why they have to "join themselves to Jehovah", again. By way of another Covenant arrangement. The WTS and G.B. have successfully led JWs so far away from God, that they need to "rejoin" themselves to God again. They need another Covenant. The Christian Covenant of Jesus, is gone, thanks to your "incompetent" leaders.

And why does this happen to JWs as an organization?

The next verses, verses 6-7 of Jeremiah 50 says,

"A flock of perishing creatures my people has become. Their own shepherds have caused them to wander about. On the mountains they have led them away. From mountain to hill they have gone. They have forgotten their resting-place. All those finding them have eaten them up, and their own adversaries have said, "We shall not become guilty, due to the fact that they [JWs] have SINNED AGAINST JEHOVAH the abiding place of righteousness and the hope of their forefather, Jehovah."

These above verses show that even those that "eat them up", those that "eat" Jehovah's Witnesses up as a nation, those that brutalize them, even they know that Jehovah Himself has abandoned them to their "enemies". The "worst ones of the nations" Jehovah says will know JWs have "sinned". Even they know. (See Ezekiel 7:8-9, 24.)

So you are mistaken again. Because these "worst ones of the nations" will know JWs as a nation are precisely the ones that have "sinned against Jehovah", greatly. The "worst" enemy will know JWs have been completely abandoned by God, the prophecy says.

This is because, JWs have "sinned" greatly, sinned to such an extent, that the nation of JWs will have to have another "covenant". They will have to rejoin themselves, "join themselves" again to God, by way of this new Covenant arrangement. Because their wicked "shepherds" have led them completely astray, You Know.

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know:

No. The captors are mentioned in verse 28 as the nations who plunder us/ You Know

But at Ezekiel 34:22 Jehovah says,

"And I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something for PLUNDER; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep."

Clearly, Jehovah says above He saves his sheep from "plundering" by His decisive action of "judging between a sheep and a sheep."

So, the real "plundering" of the hapless "sickened sheep", is done by the bad "shepherds", according to the above verse. Jehovah "judges between a sheep and a sheep". So then, the world at large, is NOT involved in this "judgment" or decisive action toward his enemies within the JW congregational structure.

Also, Ezekiel 34:4 says,

"The sickened ones you have not strengthened, and the ailing one you have not healed, and the broken one you have not bandaged, and the dispersed one you have not brought back, and the lost one you have not sought to find, but with HARSHNESS YOU HAVE HAD THEM IN SUBJECTION, EVEN WITH TYRANNY."

Does not this above text, show the WTS, specifically the Governing Body and its abusive, oppressive "elders" working in concert to "push" out or "shove" the "sickened sheep" to the point of "scattering" to oblivion?

Does this not sound like the work of "Babylon the Great"?

The verse above clearly says, the "sickened sheep" are held in tyrannical "subjection" and are dealt with in extreme "harshness". Thus, this "tyrannical" rule expressed by these wicked "shepherds" towards "Jehovah's sheep", as you have said, is fulfilled by way of prophecy upon hapless, defenseless Jehovah's Witnesses of our day.

You said originally in the opening post, that the above wicked men of the Governing Body of JWs and their "elder" assistants were the actual fulfillment of the abusive elders or bad "shepherds" of Ezekiel 34, in a modern-day sense, did you not?

And yet you say, this is NOT a vivid description of "Babylon the Great" at work? You say, this is NOT a fulfillment of her power and absolute "tyranny" she holds over the congregations of JWs at large?

For example, the WTS' recent attempt to silence, the "silent lambs" whistle-blowers. More specifically the Barbara Andersen" case itself for example, and also the upcoming "Dateline" exposure of the WTS. Does not this recent much publicized situation irrefutably and indubitably demonstrate the GB/WTS' evil character and intent toward the defenseless "sickened sheep", when they heartlessly "shove" and "push" them "outside" of the JW Organization by way of "excommunication" or "disfellowshipment"? (Please compare Ezekiel 34:21 with Isaiah 66:5.)

Does not this unique situation show the G.B and WTS to be a modern-day fulfillment of the infamous "Babylon the Great", exhibiting her powers of total control and subjecting her "slave" JW-members to the harshest form of slavery in total "obedience" to her, instead of God as it should be? (See Acts 5:29.)

She is the "Great City" that is "called by God's Name", that appropriately corresponds to oppressive "Egypt" or Jerusalem of Jesus' day led by the Pharisees. (Jeremiah 25:29; Luke 4:18; Revelation 11:8; 18:4, 10)

I'm surprised, you, of all people You Know, really can't see the corresponding nature of the evil WTS entity, and its merciless oppression of the hapless "sickened sheep", with the characteristics of a modern-day "Babylon the Great" and there being a possible link between the two?

Is this what you are saying?

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know said,

Probably, though, the dispersing of Jehovah's sheep isn't referring to the relative handful who have been lost to date, but rather a large scale dispersal that hasn't occured yet, but will occur in the future during the initial phase of the tribulation. That's evident from verses 27 and 28..

More precisely, the scripture you've cited above at Ezekiel 34:27 says,

"And the tree of the field must give its fruitage, and the land itself will give its yield, and they will actually prove to be on their soil in security. And they will have to know that I am Jehovah when I BREAK THE BARS OF THEIR YOKE AND I HAVE DELIVERED THEM OUT OF THE HAND OF THOSE WHO HAD BEEN USING THEM AS SLAVES."

Based upon the above verse, are you saying the oppressive "elders" and "Governing Body" of the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization will in the future have to be exposed as ones, who are holding the "sickened sheep" of Jehovah, in a "tyrannical" form of spiritual CAPTIVITY and spiritual "SLAVERY" as we would expect of a modern-day "Babylon the Great" type leadership? Sort of in the style of ancient Jerusalem, the "great city" associated with Jesus' death. The Great City "called by God's Name", according to Jeremiah 25:27. Is that what you are saying? (See Revelation 11:8; 18:4.)

The Bible does say, "Babylon the Great" does have her personal "slaves", to carry out her every wicked wish, does it not? (Revelation 18:13)

bjc

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

bjc2012

You Know, you said:

...That being the case, then, Jehovah obviously holds elders and the Governing Body more accountable as to how they discharge their shepherding obligations. The prophecy of Ezekiel the 34th chapter is Jehovah’s judgment yet to be brought to bear against negligent elders. For example, verse 4 says: The sickened ones you have not strengthened, and the ailing one you have not healed, and the broken one you have not bandaged, and THE DISPERSED ONE YOU HAVE NOT BROUGHT BACK, AND THE LOST ONE YOU HAVE NOT SOUGHT TO FIND

, but with harshness you have held them in subjection, even with tyranny.QUESTION: Based upon the above events of prophecy, where do you suppose the "sickened ones" among Jehovah's sheep have been "dispersed" exactly? To what place or location have they been "dispersed" more precisely, would you say?

Also where, would you say, have the "lost sheep" that have not been "sought" for been "scattered", in relation to the JW Organization?

Would you say they have been "dispersed" and chased away from the JW Organization? Have the "sickened ones" among Jehovah's sheep been chased away from the JW Organization, would you say?

Is that what the prophecy indicates for modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses as an Organization, under the wicked direction of the Governing Body?

Is that what you are saying?

I'd appreciate your insights on this situation and the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy as it applies for our day.

...Typically, the Watchtower applies Jehovah’s judgments to the clergy of Christendom, but interestingly verse 21 says: for the reason that with the flank and with the shoulder you kept pushing and with your horns YOU KEPT SHOVING ALL THE SICKENED ONES UNTIL YOU SCATTERED THEM TO THE OUTSIDE

. And I will save my sheep…

Now, if the bad shepherds who are shoving Jehovah’s sheep out are the clergy, wouldn’t that be a good thing if they left the churches? Yet, Jehovah judges the shepherds who do such a thing. It is evident then, that, since those abused sheep are called Jehovah’s sheep, that the fold over which the bad shepherds preside is in fact Jehovah’s organization and not Christendom as we now suppose...NEXT QUESTION: Ezekiel's prophecy explicitly says above, the abusive elders take their "horns" of power and push and "shove" the already "sickened sheep" completely to the point of no return -- that is they are mercilessly and cruelly "scattered to the outside". This is a horrible punishment inflicted upon them. But the verse clearly says, they are "scattered to the outside..."

Hmmmmmm........"scattered to the "outside" of what, You Know?

If this prophecy, as you say above, applies exclusively to Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization with its oppressive "elders" and NOT to Christendom and its clergy, then to where are the already "sickened sheep" scattered and pushed? Where are they "scattered" too, as the prophecy indicates?

To the "outside" it says. Does that mean, "to the outside" of the JW Organization, maybe?

What would be your opinion?

What would you say Ezekiel's modern-day prophecy indicates, as regards to where the already "sickened sheep" are "shoved" and "scattered"? It says, "to the outside"...but to the "outside of what," would you say?

bjc

17

Can you say "Schibolet?"

by LDH in

jw
friends

so, who is our new poster, schibolet, and what is his or her agenda?.

let's review some quotes:.

* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?.

bjc2012

Schibolet,

Obviously Jehovah's judgement is heavy on your conscience so you can't bear listening to the truth.

Before you put Jehovah's judgment upon someone else, you'd better look in your own backyard. If you think that Jehovah is going to overlook your organization's association with the UN as an NGO for nine years or more, then you are the one who does not know Jehovah. You had better learn what Peter meant when he said: 'judgment starts with the house of God!' You're going to be the first ones to experience the judgments of Jehovah, beginning with the Dateline show. You'll feel the real heat when you knock on your neighbor's door and are asked to explain why you have allowed pedophiles to propagate in your organization while claiming to be the one true religion. In your literature you constantly villify the Catholic Church for having this problem saying that this is proof that they are not the true religion. You have also villified them for their being an NGO with the UN and now we learn that you have done the exact same thing. Isn't this what is known as 'hypocrisy?' I'm sure you know Jehovah's view of someone acting in this way.

Look out that the judgment you are wishing upon someone else does not fall on you!

bjc

106

upstate New York

by bonnie38 in

is anyone from upstate new york?

bjc2012

Lisa,

When do you plan to go home this summer? I am thinking of visiting my son but haven't decided exactly when I'll do this.

bjc

10

'Innocent As Doves' Approach?

by Guest 77 in

jw
friends

the org.

will take the 'cautious as serpents and innocent as dove' approach to this entire escapade.

as you know, a serpent has a split tongue.

bjc2012

Hi Guest 77,

Why hasn't the C.C. not expell any of their members for reporting pedophile priest, while the JW do? Their expulsion policy will be another cause to hang themselves. People cannot and will not fathom how a religion can and does excommunicate their members for reporting pedophiles! We are dealing with two issues in one!

Good observation. Only WTS/JWs fit this profile, as a religion.

Along that line of thought, do you think Ezekiel 36:3, 12-14 could possibly have a bearing of this very situation, we are eye-witnessing. A unique two-fold problem, intertwined together, as described in the verses above...pinpointing a singular group of religious people of our day.

How about checking out this post, made almost a year ago, and let me know what you think (via email or public posting). Thanks.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum//thread.asp?id=8040

bjc