Scholar, sadly your "scholarly" credentials and methodology are not valued on this forum. Who knows but that you might be able to publish a supportive article or two in the worldly media and the brothers in Brooklyn will rush to quote from it? This may just be the real beginning for you. I can see it now: The year is 2012 with less than two years to go before the 100th anniversary of 1914, and a new governing body member is announced who goes under the psuedonym "Scholar". Long live the Watchtower chronology! Let it survive and let Scholar trumpet its accuracy!
Posts by steve2
-
78Research on the validity of 1914
by Bluegrass Tom inhere are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.
they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.
to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?
-
-
-
15
Go Back to the Kingdom Hall and Leave Us Alone!
by steve2 inhas anyone else observed or even taken part in the strange phenomenon of defending something even when you have doubts about it?
it's not a new phenomenon; i think freud called it "reactive formation".
i notice every now and then, jws and/or their supporters tentatively surface on the jw discussion board.
-
-
steve2
Bob seems different from the other JW defenders...he's "survived" a bit longer, although I've noticed his anonymity acts to encourage his use of foul, bad-tempered prose. He at least has the "courage" of his conflictions.
Tell me Bob, do the drugs continue to help or hinder your verbal expressions? I'm wondering because in an earlier post you credited the Watchtower Society with saving your life. On the other hand, if you're only out for a good time, I'm astonished at your lack of imagination in trolling through the JW websites. Now that's desperate!
-
37
Does Talking Negatively About "Jehovah" Bother You??
by minimus indo you ever feel nervous or a little guilty talking about "jehovah god" in a negative way?
?
-
-
steve2
I should be bothered when I talk negatively about Jehovah. After all, if the Bible is true, he's bigger and stronger than me and could squash me as quick as look at me.
On the other hand, I've tried to live my life not being intimidated by bullies, and, if the Old Testament is any indication, Jehovah was/is a genocidal monster. However, if coming out of the Watchtower taught me anything, it was to stand on my own two feet and take responsibility for my beliefs. A life lived in fear is a life not worth living. It takes courage to stand up to bullies, and in my view Jehovah is simply a more sophisticated bully than the kids who bashed me up at school because of my then-religious beliefs. I should be bothered, but I'm not. I think it's called "growing up" and standing up for what I believe in. On the other hand, if you're reading this, Jehovah God, I just want to say that I'm only kidding.
-
15
Go Back to the Kingdom Hall and Leave Us Alone!
by steve2 inhas anyone else observed or even taken part in the strange phenomenon of defending something even when you have doubts about it?
it's not a new phenomenon; i think freud called it "reactive formation".
i notice every now and then, jws and/or their supporters tentatively surface on the jw discussion board.
-
-
steve2
Has anyone else observed or even taken part in the strange phenomenon of defending something even when you have doubts about it? It's not a new phenomenon; I think Freud called it "reactive formation". I notice every now and then, JWs and/or their supporters tentatively surface on the JW discussion board. At first, they may only write a couple of negative things about ex-JWs which invariably draws a robust response from other forum members. Before long, the doubting JW comes back with even more negative, shrill-toned and wounded comments about mean ex-JWs. A common theme is, "How can you people be filled with such hate towards the Watchtower Society?" And it goes down hill from there. Curiously, in typical JW fashion, they don't seem to bother reading answers to their exasperated questions. They soon exit the scene by delivering some patronising sermon imploring us to come to our senses.
I think these people are the mere tip of huge numbers of doubters within the JWs who are ambivalent about the organisation. One part of them is closely emotionally aligned with the organisation (i.e., it gives them hope and helps them make sense of their lives), while other parts of them are curious or hurt or angry about stuff they have experienced in the religion. One way they cope with the torn feelings is to defend the organization, because to them it "proves" that underneath it all, they're not as bad as the apostates.
I guess I do have some empathy for the troubled JW "believers" who troll through "forbidden" websites so they can periodically offer their self-righteous denunciations about apostates. But, increasingly, I am more inclined to "encourage" them to take some responsibility for themselves: If you believe the Watchtower Society is God's channel, what on earth are you doing here castigating others? Get ye back to the Kingdom Hall, confess your sins and start underlining your latest Watchtower!
-
22
What's next for the Watchtower in 2005?
by truthseeker inafter all the events of 2004 regarding the botchtower, what do you think will happen next year?.
i can think of a few events.. first of all, 70 years will have passed since rutherflawed took on the name "jehovah's witnesses" - a gross misapplication of that scripture in isaiah.. all the new man presses will be operational - already, the wt have increased their watchtower circulation.. "godly obedience" district convention next summer - we all know what that will be about; and don't forget the layman's km article on how to book a hotel, and not just any hotel at that either.. a new book to replace "organised to accomplish our ministry".
bro barr of the governing body turns 100 (i think this is correct).
-
-
steve2
Hey Bob, me thinks you protest too much!
Just as JWs can constantly criticise other belief systems and insist that their motives are genuine and peaceable and that they do not personally hate adherents of other reiligions, so too I can criticise the JW belief system and insist that my motives are genuine and peaceable and that I do not hate JWs.
I don't know what JWs are like in your part of the world, but here in New Zealand they are endlessly preoccupied with proving everyone else wrong and themselves (i.e., the Watchtower Society) right ... exclusively right. That's a recipe for religious pride and arrogance if ever there was one.
Sometimes the "cause" of the negative feedback is brought on by one's own behaviour. In simple terms, If it is considered a Christian duty to expose religious error and to point people in the direction of the "truth", as JWs believe, then they and their supporters cannot cry foul when their very own practices and behaviours are scrutinized and criticised.
steve2
-
68
Only One Religion's WebSite Ignores the Desaster in South Asia
by GermanXJW into whatever religion's website you surf, all have a comment on the tsunami in south asia: be it catholic, protestant, adventist, mormon, new apostolic or whatever.
they try to give comfort and encourage people to donate for the suffering people there.
but if you go to http://www.watchtower.org or http://www.jw-media.org there is no mention of it (at least by now).
-
-
steve2
Hey everyone!
It's so great to read such a range of opinions and reactions on the official Watchtower website's "silence" on the tsunami's that have taken such a massive human toll. Whether I agree with any or all of these opinions or not is immaterial. I value the healthy expression of views - something that is woefully absent among the rank and file JWs.
steve2
-
30
2004 Service Report - Analysis and trends for 2005
by truthseeker inby now, most of you will have seen the scanned images of the watchtower's service report for 2004. i do not have the feb 1st magazines, so i cannot speculate further on the reason for not issuing the report in the january 1st 2005 wt.
looking at the figures, there are some trends that should be considered very disturbing to the wt leadership.
although baptisms increased marginally by 3,571, the difference between the average number of publishers and the number of baptisms is eye-popping indeed.
-
-
steve2
Hey Battman Post 314:
I appreciate your comments. I agree with you about the negative effect on the organisation of the growing pool of non-door-knocking "hangers-on".
IMO the biggest threat the Watchtower faces is not apostasy but apathy. Even my poor old grandfather - a convert in the 1930s - became disillusioned with the organisation in the late 1960s when the Watchtower magazine intoned about 'those who have slowed down'. He never left the organisation or said a bad word about it, but he "left" the door-knocking years before he died.
steve2
-
30
2004 Service Report - Analysis and trends for 2005
by truthseeker inby now, most of you will have seen the scanned images of the watchtower's service report for 2004. i do not have the feb 1st magazines, so i cannot speculate further on the reason for not issuing the report in the january 1st 2005 wt.
looking at the figures, there are some trends that should be considered very disturbing to the wt leadership.
although baptisms increased marginally by 3,571, the difference between the average number of publishers and the number of baptisms is eye-popping indeed.
-
-
steve2
Looking back, there is a creatively "lighter" side to the time keeping that helps keep those end-of-year figures "inflated":
Back in the late 1970s in my old congregation, one of the long-time pioneers was known to spend her time in cafes drinking coffee for hours on end. Alone. She was also a full-time wife and mother. Where did she find the time to do it all, we wondered. Yet, she always managed to get her hours in by month's end. The JW congregation gossip mill was rife with speculation about how she managed to do this. No one ever quite came out and directly said she was probably faking the time spent in the field. Heaven forbid that the most obvious conclusion be put into words. This woman was a pioneer - a fine example, brothers!
I also knew of an elderly brother who routinely ordered a roll of about 50 Awakes every issue, yet seldom door-knocked. A sister who knew him, told me (before I was disfellowshipped, of course!) that when he moved house several years later, a couple of the brothers helping him move found scores of unopened rolls of mint copy Awakes stacked away against the back wall of his garage.
I never did ask whether the poor old guy was reproved, confronted with the weighty evidence or commended for supporting the huge worldwide printing empire!
Perhaps his sneakiness even inspired others to follow suit: It's much less arduous buying as many magazines as you can and promptly stacking them away out of sight than buying just a few and spending hours vainly trying to get rid of them door-to-door. And as for spending time in a cafe versus witnessing door-to-door: I think that pioneer sister was way ahead of her time and should have been commended: She was taking care of herself...although I did worry about all that caffeine consumption! Sometimes, you just have to take creative risks when you're trying to survive within the confines of a repressive organisation.
steve2
-
108
My story, please read
by fairchild infirst of all, thank you very much for taking the time to read this.
i hope that i am putting this in the right forum.. .
i studied as much about different religions as i could and read every book available to me.
-
-
steve2
Hello again Fairchild,
The issues are multiplying very fast and there is so much to consider!
My opinion is that, when any of us are in the early stages of struglling to come to terms with doubt and religious belief, it's not a helpful idea to be overloaded with too much information. Yet, doubt, like faith, sometimes has an urgent quality about it that forces the individual to take on more than he or she normally would.
If the ongoing discussion is becoming too much for you, don't hesitate to give yourself permission to do what you need to do to look after yourself. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and would imagine that the last thing you need right now are lengthy dissertations from others on a multiplicity of differing ideas.
On the other hand, if this is invigorating you, go to it!
The most important thing, however, is that you take care of yourself...coming to terms with the normal human capacity to doubt and question belief systems can be an important step in finding the world a more manageable place in which to live.
steve2
-
55
Elders raid a SDA church!
by ozziepost inis it true what we're hearing?
it's been reported to us that two elders burst in to a sda church service about a month ago seeking to trap a witness man there.
the man, a witness for 14 years, had become disillusioned with the affairs of the wts in australia after viewing the "sunday" program on channel nine which exposed the cover-up of paedophilia in the witness movement.
-
-
steve2
Thanks for your reply, Barry. You spoke clearly and I didn't think you slammed me at all. You made a lot of sense. You sound like someone who has a wider a much more compassionate understanding of those whose views differ from official SDA teachings. It sounds as though SDAs in general may be more generous in their acceptance of difference than I gave them credit.
I'm still a bit uneasy though. The SDAs I know locally are kind of fundamentalist in their outlook. True, they don't disfellowship or excommunicate as per the JWs. But they're pretty judgemental and condescending in their appraisal of ex-SDAs motives and intentions. They're also very defensive about anyone questioning Ellen White's "teachings", almost the same way JWs become very defensive when the Watchtower is questioned.
steve