steve2

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Posts by steve2

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  46

  First post

  by maidden in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but weirdly enough, i've been mentioned here before, when one of my posts at lj (about whether or not subjection to the organization is relative) caused a bit of a war among ljjws.

  i found this forum googling my username, actually.

  i was wondering if anyone here has any theories as to why it is that, the more meetings we skip, the less we want to go.

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  steve2

  I was wondering if anyone here has any theories as to why it is that, the more meetings we skip, the less we want to go. If we're missing our spiritual meals, shouldn't we be getting more hungry?

  Hey there Maidden. Nice to hear from you. What a good question you've asked!

  The Witnesses would say you're suffering from spiritual anorexia but it seems you're realising that it really is a case of the grumpy old chef blaming the sensibly reluctant diners. Welcome to this wonderful recipe book with lots of tips on how to prepare nourishing meals for yourself! steve2
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  48

  Argument from an elder on why to not leave the JWs...

  by undercover in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i got an interesting reply from an elder friend when i admitted that i had issues with the wts.

  i had listed the failed predictions, the changing doctrines and the mistakes made by the wts.. he came back with the examples of the israelites in the wilderness and under the various kings.

  the nation of israel was still god's people despite their hardheadedness and sins.

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  steve2

  According to the Bible, Jehovah did eventually reject his own "organization" - he sent prophets to the kings who often persecuted the prophets. His "organization" apostasized over and over and over again. It was individuals (e.g. prophets) who tried to call them to repentance. Ask the JW elder who the modern-day prophets are that they kings (e.g., governing body) are persecuting?

  Viewed from this perspective, the Hebrew Scriptures supports the work of the modern-day individuals who are persecuted (e.g., kicked out and shunned) by the organization
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  27

  Questions No JW has answered

  by 144001 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many times i have asked my jw relatives questions that they've been unable to answer with anything other than, "good question, i'll get back to you on that.

  " for some reason, they never actually do get back to me on them.

  so, now here's the opportunity for the jehovah's witnesses and their supporters on this forum to either answer some of these questions or concede that they have no answer.

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  steve2

  Here's a question no JW has ever answered (maybe it's because they cannot grasp the implications of the question):

  If, when we die, nothing about us (e.g., spirit or soul) literally exists anymore, what exactly will be resurrected? Just a memory of us? That's not resurrection; that's re-creation: Someone who will think he or she is us.

  I don't lie awake anymore pondering this question, but I've seen nothing in their literature that addresses this specific question - or have I missed something??
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  39

  Shunning - what do they think they are accomplishing?

  by mjarka911 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a jw cousin of mine called my jw wife today and asked if i saw my new nephew from my jw sister.

  my wife said "no, his family would never allow him to see the baby!

  " (i'm da'd).

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  steve2

  I am grateful for their shunning!

  Hey that's great Billygoat. Scootergirl - I like your outlook as well. Real growth to maturity in life arises from meeting adveristy head-on. When I was an active JW and saw a few people come back so that they could be with their family members again, they always looked so sad and weighed down (despite coming back). Posture-wise, they seemed slumped and defeated. I really felt compassion for them. Now, after being kicked out myself, I realise it doesn't have to be that way. I love to say that the day I was kicked out was the day I started to grow up. Go back? Never. Not unless I begin to miss my baby toys and things. Thank you Watchtower for waking me up to my need to take responsibility for my life and to refuse being controlled by the cheapest form of emotional blackmail: Not talking to someone!
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  23

  WHEN DID APOSTACY SET IN?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the jws claim to be a restoration of 1st century christianity,when did apostacy set in in theeir mindset?

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  steve2

  Doesn't making sense of an old text in a new historical context always involve a lot of "human reasoning"?

  Sure does! As time passes, it takes more and more and more rules to illustrate that we've moved on from rules (comparing early Christianity with the Talmudic approach). How ironic.
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  20

  Women in the congregation

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the fact that women are not allowed to address the congregation directly is something that really bothers me.

  is there a bible scripture, indicating that such should be the case?

  furthermore, something as simple as passing a mike cannot be done by a woman.

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  steve2

  See how loving Paul is towards women:

  1Timothy

  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

  2:12

  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

  2:13

  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

  2:14

  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

  Right on melmac!!!! The main culprit for the way women have historically been treated in the church is that legalistic misogynist, the apostle Paul. Blinded by the light indeed!
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  39

  Shunning - what do they think they are accomplishing?

  by mjarka911 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a jw cousin of mine called my jw wife today and asked if i saw my new nephew from my jw sister.

  my wife said "no, his family would never allow him to see the baby!

  " (i'm da'd).

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  steve2

  Shunning is the way in which insecure people "prove" to themselves and others that they really do believe it, while underneath it all, the doubt persists.
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  39

  Shunning - what do they think they are accomplishing?

  by mjarka911 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a jw cousin of mine called my jw wife today and asked if i saw my new nephew from my jw sister.

  my wife said "no, his family would never allow him to see the baby!

  " (i'm da'd).

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  steve2

  The depressing reality is that individuals do seem to return to the Kingdom Hall because the shunning is just too hard for them to bear. I remember reading in the Watchtower an account of a young woman who returned after being disfellowshiped. She was quoted as virtually saying something like "I'm glad my family shunned me because it made me see how much I had displeased Jehovah." A sad variation on the "hit me because it's all I know" theme evident among abuse-victims.

  The Watchtower sure is clever! Demonstrate to readers that at least some people do buckle under pressure and return. I guess it would make sense if, underneath it all, the individuals who returned actually believed it was the truth. But how sad to return simply to avoid others' disapproval.
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  23

  WHEN DID APOSTACY SET IN?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the jws claim to be a restoration of 1st century christianity,when did apostacy set in in theeir mindset?

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  steve2

  The oldest Pauline material is likely much older than the four Gospels. And the first canonical Gospel in time (Mark) is probably influenced by Pauline theology (especially in its critical attitude toward the Law). Nothing's simple.

  I agree, Narkkisos. Even you're considered statement - that Paul's epistles predate the gospels - would be considered heresy by many!
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  23

  WHEN DID APOSTACY SET IN?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  the jws claim to be a restoration of 1st century christianity,when did apostacy set in in theeir mindset?

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  steve2

  In my view, the first Christian apostate of any note was the apostle Paul. Compare the tone and content of his epistles with the four gospels. Paul, a converted Jew, had a rule on almost eveything and he really appeared to be a control freak. He bad-mouthed anyone who questioned his authority, came up with recommendations that were little more than edicts in disguise (e.g., women should remain silent in church and ask their husbands if they have any questions!). Most tellingly, he formalised the ex-communication process.

  I suppose the introduction of rules and policies had to happen, given that the end did not arrive when expected and the followers at that time had to settle down rather than hang around "urgently" waiting for the end to occur. deja vu.