Earlier postings mentioned Johnny Carson and others weaving jokes about JWs into their sketches, along no doubt with a host of other groups and topics. That's part of what being different is about and jokes about different beliefs and lifestyles can be really funny. What isn't funny is the original posting about John Denver asking JWs to stand and leave. But, as someone else wrote, sometimes stories do get taken out of context. I remember at High School one of my teachers said to me in fron of my class that I might want to leave the room before the national anthem was played. I felt embarrassed and slunk out of the room very red faced. But on reflection, that teacher may well have been doing it out of consideration for me. By the way, I had also heard that Glen Campbell had been studying with the JWs in the late 1960s.
Posts by steve2
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33Was Johnny Carson pro JW?
by HappyDad indoes anyone remember one of his shows from the late 1970's when john denver was on the show?
i never saw the show but heard about it in the jw circle (urban legend??).
it was known that john denver hated jw's and during their bantering, carson asked denver about his asking jw's to leave during his concerts.
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17
Female elders
by glitter inwhen did you first realise the society wouldn't allow women to be an ms or an elder?
i remember being seven or eight and playing dolls with an elder's daughter in her bedroom.
my doll was meeting up with her doll at the convention after not seeing each other for a long time.
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steve2
Why would any self-respecting woman want to be an elder in the Kingdom Hall? Surely woman are capable of far loftier ambitions than sitting in small, sweaty committee rooms picking over the intimate and grubby details of the lives of lapsed and non-lapsed Jws and offering stifling formulae for solving the most complex of life's problems of the repentent ones (You know the recipe for every single problem: "Pray more, study more, attend meetings more and preach more".....which translates as, Go mad ever so slowly and surely).
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My Recent Combative Posting
by Greenpalmtreestillmine ini seem to have fallen in an ocean of sorts, the ocean of compative posting.
my apologies to all here.
i will make every effort to not post in a compative manner from now on.
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steve2
Hey there Sabrina, there's no need to apologize! Coming out of the Watchtower, though, it is understandable that we seem to access our negative emotions more easily than our positive ones. The JWs are so conditioned to be compliant and "pleasant" that when real emotion emerges, there can be a guilt reaction. Part of growing up for me was allowing myself to express my sometimes strong views and not feel the need to apologise - no matter how seemingly upset others seemed. I don't mean that I rode roughshod over people's feelings - but the JW environment is so conducive to stirring up Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) that it can take a while to challenge these sometimes automatic reactions.
It's okay to disagree with others and you don't have to "play the game".
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steve2
Hey who is this wonderful Gwen in real life? What devastating but cute wit. I love the cats - especially the one that said "Pet me".
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33
Was Johnny Carson pro JW?
by HappyDad indoes anyone remember one of his shows from the late 1970's when john denver was on the show?
i never saw the show but heard about it in the jw circle (urban legend??).
it was known that john denver hated jw's and during their bantering, carson asked denver about his asking jw's to leave during his concerts.
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steve2
As an ex witness I'm not in love with them myself but that was disgusting. Not only was he a fanatical born again Christian he was a wanker.
Thank you londoner: I'm now convinced it is not an urban myth. I agree with your apt label of the man (i.e., wanker). Denver, despite his death a few years ago, has gone down even further in my estimation. How dare he do that? It is times like that that I feel like sticking up for the JWs. I hope none of the JWs in the audience left the audience - then again, could you remain in the audience after he displayed such shocking disrespect for fans who had paid to hear him sing .
Even if I had been an ex-JW at the time and had been in the audience, I would have walked out with them. What interests me is, did anyone else in the audience protest at this sick religious discrimination? Surely there were others in the audience who had some empathy or conscience to complain???
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Rolling Stone refuses to run ad for Bible
by William Penwell inis this censorship?
from cnn :
rolling stone refuses to run ad for bible
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steve2
Huh? Let me wipe my eyes. Am I reading correctly? The God of the Bible needs Rolling Stone magazine to promote the latest version of his ever changing word??
With all due respect, God needs to be gently told that even the best known authors grapple with a sense of rejection every now and then. From what I understand, some authors have written their best stuff after they receive a rejection slip. Stay tuned. God is probably working on a new interpretation of Revelation even as we speak. I can see it now: Revelation Unplugged. "Please, please, Rolling Stone, if I include a sound track on this updated version, will you advertise it then?"
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Why did I leave after 50 yrs a JW
by londoner ini am not posting this to justify my actions, i am doing so for the benifit of any witnesses who are unsure about there feelings toward the "truth".
i was a reguler pioneer for about 8 yrs, back when it was 100 hours a month, befor thet i did a couple of yrs as a vacation pioneer, they later changed the name to auxilery pioneer, and during the following 20 yrs i had a few intermitant spells as an auxilery when i had time to.
during my pioneer years i have given talks at circuit assemblies and had assignments at district assemblies .
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steve2
Hey welcome Londoner. Greetings from New Zealand! There's an enormous sense of pain and loss in your post, and I trust you will get lots of validation and encouragement as you reach out to others who have similarly left the organization. Anything I say about your sense of loss and wasted years is out of a sense of respect and hope that, of all you've been through over the years, you will have developed the skills and abilities to gradually rebuild your life.
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'This Generation'
by fairchild inyes, again... after reading numerous posts on this site and doing some research on my own, i have a strong feeling that my whole belief will soon stand or fall with the understanding of 'this generation'.. matthew 24:3 .."tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?".
matthew 24:7 for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.. matthew 24:34 truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.. .
generation:noun: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent noun: the normal time between successive generations example: "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade".
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steve2
Hey Justin, yours was a very interesting post. I'm not sure which side of the fence I am on (to use that metaphor). I cannot bring myself to stop believing in a creator, but I am riddled with doubts about who or what that creator might be. I like the approach taken by Susan Jeffers (of Feel the Fear & Do It Anyway fame). In her more recent book, Embracing Uncertainty, she discusses the word, syat, used by the Jains of India. It roughly means, "To the best of my knowledge at this time". In other words, as humans our knowledge and learning are not only progressive but also limited. It takes humility to say, "It just don't know for sure; but this is my best guess at this time...etc"
I feel such relief when, after I've struggled to better comprehend some concept or idea, I let go of the need to be absolutely certain about it. Belief is seldom, if ever, a matter of self-discipline - and if it is, it doesn't say much about the belief. Yet, my experience and observation as a JW was that they seemed too scared to think through the implications of Watchtower teachings and had this unhealthy need to always be right and to shut the door on acknowledging other points of view.
I like what you said about non-believers being as prone to dogmatism as are believers. It recalls some thoughts I had a while ago when creationists and evolutionists slogged it out in our local newspaper: "Spare me from people who are so convinced they are right that they cannot listen accurately to what their "opponents" are saying." To me, it is so sad that people relegate beliefs to such a high place in their lives that it leads them to belittle and de-humanize their fellow human beings.
Am I concerned about this tendency to elevate one's own firm views and denegrate all others? In a way I am, but I don't think my role in life is to do anything about it - because that could easily lead me to a kind of inverted pride: the dubious notion that others need to consider my point of view in order for them to accurately think matters through. No, been there, done that. Sometimes it's totally cool to leave the believers and non-believers to their interminable "arguing". On the other hand, it may not be "arguing": I'm open to the possibility that forums such as this one can be a very useful forum for exchanging views and I'm even open to modifying my views.
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Was Johnny Carson pro JW?
by HappyDad indoes anyone remember one of his shows from the late 1970's when john denver was on the show?
i never saw the show but heard about it in the jw circle (urban legend??).
it was known that john denver hated jw's and during their bantering, carson asked denver about his asking jw's to leave during his concerts.
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steve2
Could this is one of those urban legends? I remember a story that was going around the JW congregations in New Zealand in the late 1970s: Glen Cambell (Witchita Lineman, Rhinstone Cowboy) had recently converted to fundamentalist Christianity and during his American concerts he was supposed to have asked JWs in the audience to stand up and leave. We listened to this story in hushed tones and passed it on. Surely, this was evidence that Jehovah's people were going to be singled out for persecution.
I went off Glen Campbell's music (well, to be honest, his music was a bit passe at that time). Now, reading about the John Denver story prompts me to wonder how true either story ever was. Why would any celebrity ask members of a religious group to stand and leave? And even if he asks them to leave, do they have to? What about human rights legislation?
And what about a backlash in the audience (i.e., other people who feel that he has no right to tell law-abiding patrons to go)? No, it the absence of independent collaboration (actual media coverage would be fine) the story has urban legend stamped all over it.
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International assemblies - $$$$ aspect
by JustTickledPink inmy mother is 61 yoa and has always lived on the brink of poverty.
a little over a year ago she said that there had been an annoucement of an "international assembly" in australia.
she applied.
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steve2
Tickled, living close to Australia, my eyes popped when I read your account. Judging by the current NZ dollar exchange rate, I could go on a round the world return-trip, with a multi-city stop off throughout Europe and Asia and still have money left over when I got back. And the NZ exchange rate is less than the US rate - you guys could buy much more with your dollar in foreign countries than I could - but I could still do it with less than five grand! Oh, and it would be closer to three weeks than a measly 12 days. Someone's making a tasty little profit out of this. "Faithful and discreet" my big toe!
What bugs me is, the Watchtower must have clout among travel agents. I bet the big wigs in Brooklyn get flown everywhere at a cheap rate. Why on earth can't the watchtower come up with a cut-rate travel deal with travel agents for the rank and file? It's a big enough organization to be able to do this. Goodness knows, when I was working for the local university, I was able to get some really good, cut-rate travel deals because of the university's clout. Don't tell me that the Watchtower, if it wanted to, could not get a really competitive deal for people like your mother. I really feel so much for the poorer people in the ranks. It gets to me.
It doesn't take too much imagination to see that, it would only take a relatively few cancellations across a big country such as the States for the Watchtower to rake in a lot of money. And, on top of that the five grand is unjustifiably exorbitant to begin with.
Best advice I can give anyone, leave the JWs, go to your local travel agent and see the world!