steve2

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Posts by steve2

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  24

  Why Is A "Non-violent" People So Violent To Its Young?

  by steve2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the anomalies of the jehovah's witness worldview is that it "carries" its non-violence hand-in-hand with some fairly violent practices towards its young ones.

  so, the jehovah's witness father or mother who would reject any involvement in the military or "turn the other cheek" if physically attacked in field service, has no qualms about yanking their noisy child out of the kingdom hall and giving that child a good thrashing (i.e., beating on the buttocks, legs, arms and back) and creating an even greater noise.

  i am not a parent, but over the years of observing parents - and others - hitting children both inside and outside the kingdom hall, it slowly occurred to me just what a barbaric practice this was.

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  steve2

  If physical abuse, i.e. violence, is painful, degrading and against the law, is emotional or spiritual abuse any less painful just cause the outward signs are violent?

  A very good question. I've also appreciated others views and comments on the topic of the use of corporal punishment by JW parents.

  I agree that psychological scarring, although invisible to the observing eye, is no less harmful.

  With physical abuse you can hear, see, touch, smell and taste the literal punishment and its consequences. Anyone who has directly experienced physical abuse, including sexual abuse, will know how all senses are involved in the experience and its re-living. Physically striking and/or violating another person is more easily seen as abusive; hence, its continuance is all the more deplorable.

  The reason my question about the Watchtower's sanctioning of corporal punishment is important is that, even modern secular society increasingly views that type of punishment as an unacceptable way to discipline children. Given the JWs claims about being a peaceful, non physically violent people, their defense of using corporal punishment in the discipline children is especially appalling.
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  45

  Internal Reaction to Monthly Awake

  by ezekiel3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well the news is getting around within the congregations about the awake!

  going to a monthly beginning 2006.. some reactions from active jws:.

  one sister actually dances a jig.

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  steve2

  What's the likelihood that, if no announcement about the change to once a month was made, that anyone would have noticed anyway?

  Perhaps the most reaction would have been a stifled, "Let's not say anything to the DO; maybe it's a mistake; but in the meantime, there are less magazines to distribute place. What a relief!"
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  51

  Some JWs Are "In The Closet"

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by that, i mean, some witnesses will not just now "out" themselves because of various fears and concerns.

  some of us are still "in the closet".

  so to speak, because we're not ready to expose ourselves to the "loving brothers", just yet---at least not 100 %.

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  steve2

  Surely "coming out" of the Watchtower is a hugely personal matter, with the repercussions being different for everyone.

  Readiness to come out and timeliness of coming out are two factors. E.g, for a lot of us, the doubts came first, but often weren't sufficient to cause us to leave; we weren't ready. I also think of those who have really close family in the religion, such as spouses, parents and children; the costs can be formidable in terms of finances and even employment.

  Sometimes, it's also better to wait for the "right" moment (e.g., when others are also planning on leaving). The right moment can have really dramatic impact value.
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  27

  Ozzie's UnWeekend Poll

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this week's question is:.

  if you were marooned on a desert island, what drink would you die for?.

  1. shiraz.

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  steve2

  A JW (er, I mean Johnny Walker)*.

  * whiskey?
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  14

  How do you explain this scripture?

  by Sunspot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hopefully, wts supporters will answer this question.. "38for i am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, .

  39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of god that is in christ jesus our lord.

  footnote: a: romans 8:38 or nor heavenly rulers .

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  steve2

  "38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

  39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, (not even the Watchtower) will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. "

  I admire the simple, straightforward accounts others have provided of these verses. The words in red are timely reminders that humans cannot get in the way of an individual's relationship with the Creator. Boy, is that comforting.

  Don't these verses remind us that, in general, the JWs are pretty naive and even "lost" when it comes to their understanding of Scriptural verses that refer to one's relationship with God?

  By contrast, they're selectively well-versed on a limited range of other more "functional" verses (e.g., preaching the "good news" etc, verses that coincidentally support the magazine-distribution work). It has been well observed that, if you can get a JW away from the predictable spiel, he or she falters and is lost for words. No wonder then, that the watchtower implores the rank and file to keep away from the internet.
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  24

  Why Is A "Non-violent" People So Violent To Its Young?

  by steve2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the anomalies of the jehovah's witness worldview is that it "carries" its non-violence hand-in-hand with some fairly violent practices towards its young ones.

  so, the jehovah's witness father or mother who would reject any involvement in the military or "turn the other cheek" if physically attacked in field service, has no qualms about yanking their noisy child out of the kingdom hall and giving that child a good thrashing (i.e., beating on the buttocks, legs, arms and back) and creating an even greater noise.

  i am not a parent, but over the years of observing parents - and others - hitting children both inside and outside the kingdom hall, it slowly occurred to me just what a barbaric practice this was.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  steve2

  One of the anomalies of the Jehovah's Witness worldview is that it "carries" its non-violence hand-in-hand with some fairly violent practices towards its young ones. So, the Jehovah's Witness father or mother who would reject any involvement in the military or "turn the other cheek" if physically attacked in field service, has no qualms about yanking their noisy child out of the Kingdom Hall and giving that child a good thrashing (i.e., beating on the buttocks, legs, arms and back) and creating an even greater noise.

  I am not a parent, but over the years of observing parents - and others - hitting children both inside and outside the kingdom hall, it slowly occurred to me just what a barbaric practice this was. It seemed the only advice the Watchtower had for harried parents (and their children) was "Discipline the kid" if he disobeys you. Totally ignoring other ways of dealing with restless and noisy children, it became standard practice for the parent to whisk the "offending" child out of an often hot and stuffy kingdom hall, followed by either loud or muffled sounds outside of the child getting hit.

  Yes, some of that parenting style was a product of its time (i.e., when it was more widely accepted that good parenting involved physically striking the child). But the relative ease with which children were subjected to this - and from some accounts still are - strikes me as anomalous in a group that claims to be enlightened by the "truth". Coming from a group that, in most other respects, condemns violence, it is all the more noteworthy. Funny, most of us on this fourm live in seculat societies that, for the large part, have very clear legislation against adults hitting other adults but children, our most vulnerable members of (secular) society are at the mercy of their parents. The parents, in turn, are at the mercy of a religion that robustly defends the parents' right to physically hit their children for "misbehaving" during meetings - meetings that greatly challenge even the "grownups" to sit still and pay attention.

  What are others' views on this practice of hitting children to get them to sit still and pay attention during KH meetings?
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  59

  TODAYS TALKS WAS BORING AS HELL..........

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i actually went to the meeting this morning (okay, sumeone talked me into going)...........god it was boring.......something about jesus and the kingdom and frigging deuteronomy and hebrews and jeremiah-was-a-bullfrog...........and then they talked about old faithful: mathew 28:19 20 "go therefore and piss everyone off selling btochtower and asleep magazines to all the inhabitents of the earth.

  an' look: i am with you every frigging saturday morning till the government bans your sorry asses.

  i escaped after the first meeting and met the stares of several good christians wanting to know why i was leaving half way through......i told the asshole elder who followed me outside: " i've got my period!!

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  steve2

  Later on down the road, I had to attend meetings with our Asperger's Syndrome (Autistic) grandson who also had ADHD. (VERY impulsive and energetic!) and I was on crutches or in a wheelchair a good deal of these years..........NOT exactly a picnic trying to keep HIM sitting quietly!

  That sounds completely frustrating and so trying for you. I think it is such a shame that the JWs refusal to accommodate the special needs of children makes it so much more difficult for parents who are already struggling. Worse, the most the Watchtower has to offer is stern admonition to discipline your child.
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  37

  Watchtower Aug. 15, 1968 says to ignore Jesus about tthe time of the end..

  by AloneinOh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  talking about 1975 and the push by the society got me to looking at some older quotes.

  this one here really bugged me and still pisses me off when i read it.

  in this instance they are telling you to forget about jesus and listen to the society.

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  steve2

  "..take heed that you not be decieved,. For many will come in My name,saying I am He, and "The time has drawn near", Therefore do not go after them".

  Luke 21:8

  I'm surprised that the Watchtower is not assailed more frequently with this scriptural message which is actually a damning indictment on the Watchtower's obsession with saying the end is near.

  Does anyone know what the Watchtower writers have to say about this scripture and how they explain it? I bet they do not cite it very often at all, for obvious reasons.
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  59

  TODAYS TALKS WAS BORING AS HELL..........

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i actually went to the meeting this morning (okay, sumeone talked me into going)...........god it was boring.......something about jesus and the kingdom and frigging deuteronomy and hebrews and jeremiah-was-a-bullfrog...........and then they talked about old faithful: mathew 28:19 20 "go therefore and piss everyone off selling btochtower and asleep magazines to all the inhabitents of the earth.

  an' look: i am with you every frigging saturday morning till the government bans your sorry asses.

  i escaped after the first meeting and met the stares of several good christians wanting to know why i was leaving half way through......i told the asshole elder who followed me outside: " i've got my period!!

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  steve2

  This raises another point that's long overdue. If they insist that people bring their babies and small children to two hours of boring lectures, then why the hell don't they have Sunday School for the kids?? Responsible sisters could take turns looking after babies and the older children could learn simple stories, colour in bible colouring books, build a small scale of Noah's Ark.......anything!

  I totally agree with you, Mary. There is huge pressure on the whole family being present at the meetings and the expectation that even tiny babies will "behave" themselves.

  I think, though, that the Watchtower has dug itself a hole regarding the issue of sensible child care arrangements such as found in church Sunday schools. For decades the Watchtower has placed itself above this type of arrangement and even criticised churches for separating the young children into special services.

  Meanwhile, JW meeting attendances are in decline , parents with young children struggle to meet the five meetings a week requirement and in true Watchtower fashion, nothing practical is done to help the parents. To top it off, there is nothing in the meetings that captivate and invigorate the adults, let alone the poor children who have to "behave" themselves through the whole boring process.
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  59

  TODAYS TALKS WAS BORING AS HELL..........

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i actually went to the meeting this morning (okay, sumeone talked me into going)...........god it was boring.......something about jesus and the kingdom and frigging deuteronomy and hebrews and jeremiah-was-a-bullfrog...........and then they talked about old faithful: mathew 28:19 20 "go therefore and piss everyone off selling btochtower and asleep magazines to all the inhabitents of the earth.

  an' look: i am with you every frigging saturday morning till the government bans your sorry asses.

  i escaped after the first meeting and met the stares of several good christians wanting to know why i was leaving half way through......i told the asshole elder who followed me outside: " i've got my period!!

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  steve2

  He's an arrogant, chauvenistic, modern day Pharisee who's caused A LOT of problems for people in the Hall, deleting elders who disagree with anything he says, brow-beating "weak" ones.......the guy's a slimeball.

  Hey, I know him!

  So do I. This is spooky. I think we have several copies of this specific elder-edition in New Zealand alone.