Posts by blacksheep

16

Please help me get through to my mother!!!!!

by dissedsis in

jw
friends

i am going to start by telling a little of my story.

when i was growing up, my mother was a witness, and my father was not.

my mother took me and my brother and sister to the meetings with her.

blacksheep

“Also...do whatever you can to keep your kids safe...and educate them early...encourage them to think for themselves and draw there on ideas. I have refused flat out to let my wife take my kids to the kingdom hall...and the elders actually told her that if I said no then it's no...she can't take them.”

FRUSTR8TED: Good for you!! Please stick to your guns. I certainly wish MY un-believing father had. Instead, he sold us kids out IMO. He didn’t believe it, but he allowed my mom to have her way and raise us as JW’s. Two of the 3 of us are out of it (as adults), but it has done some damage. He punished us (presenting a "united front" with mom), if we appeared to not want to go out in service, go to meetings, whatever. He seemed to try to portray my mother as some virtuous, righteous, giving person, someone we should strive to be, and a large part of those virtues apparently stemmed from her "appliciation" of the JW beliefs. All the while, he clearly refused to accept the society's teachings. Never went to meetings, jokingly put it down most of the time.

I’ll confess, although I love my father, I think he did not act responsibly in this regard. Probably the biggest factor in my leaving is realizing I would NEVER allow my children to be raised in such a religion, esp. against their will.

37

What does the average Witness know?

by Grunt in

i have to wonder what the average witness today knows?

i guess they are under orders not to talk to anyone that might actually be able to inform them of any facts that are negative or unflattering to the society, but what have they found out anyway, through whatever means, even the publications?.

1. do they know that russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914?

blacksheep

Since true, independent research of the organization is not encouraged, most JW’s would not run across this information, or have the emotional ability to process it objectively if they did.

I was raised as a witness and left it in my early 20s (and, was fortunate to have gone to college as well, since, as my mother put it “there was nothing to be done with me": I wasn’t married, wasn’t pioneering, a full-time secular job seemed to be too threatening-- too much association with wordlings--so a local university where I could live at home seemed an innocuous transition, sort of an extension of high school...until I could marry a JW and settle down.

I think having this educational exposure was quite helpful in help me view the JWs and their belief systems more critically and objectively. That bolstered my gut instincts that something was very wrong with the organization.

After having been exposed to more objective thinking/views, it quite baffles me to see how JWs can live their lives in such intellectual and emotional bondage. How they can say that are “free” (right, from “holiday hype”, from “blinding” doctrinal inaccuracies…right, that’s true “freedom”).

I’ve come to believe that belonging to this org fulfills certain voids in some people. Life “on the outside” is simply too difficult to fathom, and esp for the old-timers (like my mom), it would be too much of shock to attempt to change their whole manner of thinking. So they don’t. They "remain faithful." Oddly, my father, who is a non-believer, has developed a sort of perverse notion that my mother’s “faithfulness” and belief system represents “strength.” I personally think the reverse is true.

13

Are you a fighter , or just recovering?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

just wondering about how many here feel they are fighters against the organisation of jehovahs witnesses, and how many consider themselves just recovering from the experience?.

i would say i am a fighter, that is i am against the org not just upset at what has happened to me.. how about you?

blacksheep

Hmm...I guess I feel my personal "battle" is over--it took me several years FIGHTING it to come to a personal balance. I guess now I don't take them seriously enough to actively follow or try to "fight" what they are doing. Their doctine no longer interests me, they've completely lost whatever hold they had on me at one time (I was raised by a devout JW mother/non-believing father).

I'm glad now to see so many people vocal about what a crock they are: this didn't seem to be the case when I was leaving several years ago (probably thanks to the internet today).

I definately offer my opinion to anyone who asks; most people IMO simply don't see what an insidious, anti-human org they really are. But I personally don't find them that threatening nor do I care to fulfill their persecution complex enough to actively work against them at this point. I figure they'll burn themselves out, eventually. And they'll end up doing it at their own hands.

The downside is I have nephews/neices/relatives still in it, with whom I will likely never be able to have a meaningful relationship with, nor will they ever really accept me (or me them, I guess). But there's really nothing I can do about it...unless they come to me at some point for support.

Probably doesn't sound like much of a fighter mentality, but I've fought my personal battle and won: I'm happy with that.

34

The "barf" Bethel visit

by Yadira Angelini in

jw
friends

my jw daughter came over monday to tell me all about her visit to bethel!.

first, she said how happy she felt and so very emotional when they took them, (a group of 8) to where the "twelve goberning body" held their meetings.

she said: "mom, i got to see where they sit!".

blacksheep

Yeah, it's definately love/infatuation, whatever. The way I see it, you either have it or you don't. My mom took me cross country to NY when I was a teenager: I loved it, but I felt the trip was marred by our tour of Bethel and the farm. What a privilege..., according to mom. What a bore, according to me. Otherwise the trip was exciting/wonderful.

Like I say, you either "get" the feeling, or you don't. I NEVER did.

23

Would you have become a witness if not..

by sleepy in

jw
friends

would you have become a witness if not raised as one?.

for me i would say no way.

blacksheep

I seriously doubt it. In fact, one of the key reasons I decided it was no longer for me was when I considered having children of my OWN. It doesn't take much of a psych background to determine that it's NOT a healthy influence for children. Like many a child who was raised as a witness, I'm sure, I feel that I missed out on a lot of life. (No violins: I think my crazy upbringing has made me more sensitive and added other dimensions to my life...)

All the crap I never understood or agreed with, even as a child, but had to pretend to accept. Knowing that I was "different" from everyone else, but not really understanding why I had to be. God hated Chistmas celebrations, along with the celebration of birthdays (really? WHY, again?? No many how many times I was given the "answer" it never added up). Was the all-powerful God of the univese REALLY really that nit-picky???

All the hypocracy, the self-centered view of world and of history...no, I don't think so. I like to think I'm pretty balanced (maybe my background has FORCED me to be, though). It's just not something that I truly believe would appeal to me. It's too extreme.

16

Why do the 'friends' believe Elders over Experts

by FriendlyFellaAL in

jw
friends

this is something i've been wondering about lately due to personal experiences.

my mother and stepfather (she's a jw, he is not) have been having some marital problems of late and instead of seeking out the advice of a marriage counselor or some similar specialist in the field, they have chosen to seek help through one of the elders in her congregation.

i'm completely surprised by this, yet i know i shouldn't be.

blacksheep

In addition to what everyone else has stated, deep down I think they believe that all "problems," marital or otherwise, are based on failure to properly apply God's word (a.k.a. as the Watchtower teachings). Since all problems are really rooted in people's shortcomings in applying the divine truths according to the society, who best to help point this out but the "spiritual leaders"?

76

Objectivity and This Site

by Eutapro in

jw
friends

i must say that as a neutral scientific observer of this site--it seems that things are kind of one-sided here.

i thought this was a board with both devout jws and ex-jws on it.

on further reflection it appears that this medium of communication should probably be called ex-jw.com.

blacksheep

“I will not belabor this point. It just seems that a site supposedly for "apostates" would label itself ex-jw.com instead of jw.com. But that is the owner's business I guess. The title just caught me unawares since I thought there would be an opporunity to communicate with both jws and ex-jws on this board.”

Well, interesting point of technicality. Actually, I just started lurking/posting to this site fairly recently; I actually found this site as a link VIA an “ex jw” site, so there are obviously many points of entry.

Speaking as a quite some time self-outted member (raised by a very devout JW parent), I continue to maintain that this site wouldn’t be at all attractive to the truly devout, by-the-book JWs. They really don’t do debate, you see. There’s no point: they’ve already WON. They advise their members to avoid anti-witness talk/thoughts. In fact (maybe they don’t advertise this as much now), but they used to advise their members to simply *discontinue* conversations with people who challenge them if they find themselves becoming “confused,” in their thinking, “muddled,” etc. THAT, of course, was a sure sign that Satan was behind the person’s words and the JW was at risk of being “blinded” by Satan. (I know, my mother actually told me the only reason she continued to try to discuss “spiritual things” with me was because she didn’t encounter such “confusion”).

So, “confusion” to the witness means to stop discussion something: bad sign. (Of course, it cannot mean that someone has a valid point…)

Regardless, if you’re so concerned with an objective exploration of the witness theology/beliefs, etc., you might want to check out their OWN sites first. Check out their doctrine. Read the Watchtower. With and open, honest mind.

Then *maybe* the apparently onesided(?) discussions here might make a bit more sense. You MIGHT pick up on why they are shrouded in such controversy. And why those who’ve been in that organization (either by choice, or raised in it by non-choice) feel the need to expose their doctrines/practices to legitmate scrutiny. Scrutiny which the witnesses attempt to suppress within their organization, but cannot outside of it.

Or, then again, you just might be converted to their beliefs. You just might be impressed with their intellectual appeal...

76

Objectivity and This Site

by Eutapro in

jw
friends

i must say that as a neutral scientific observer of this site--it seems that things are kind of one-sided here.

i thought this was a board with both devout jws and ex-jws on it.

on further reflection it appears that this medium of communication should probably be called ex-jw.com.

blacksheep

Well, as the fundamental reality of the JW cult is to shun "apostates" and to avoid those "speaking against the truth," it's hardly a big mystery why you don't see lots of "devout" JW's here. This is exactly the kind of forum that are warned to avoid (should tell you something, no?).

46

ex-jws and cognitive dissonance

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

mystikool told me i should endure.

he said it not right for me to drop out when there is battle to be fought.

so i no longer offended.

blacksheep

“ex jws think they are free. but they really suffer from cognitive dissonance and malfunctioning defense mechanisms--reaction formation, shadow, neurotic symptoms.”

Some may suffer from a time: it’s called CULT EXODUS. Of course there will be cognitive dissonance. This occurs when the bizarre reality the JWs have CREATED for its members, where they are the center of the universe and truth emanates from the SOCIETY, contrasts with reality in the REAL WORLD.

When I left, my self-righteous mother claimed that I still KNEW it was the truth: I just couldn’t APPLY it. I told her that I knew NOTHING of the sort. Like a good, brainwashed JW, she couldn’t understand how anyone could consciously and knowingly LEAVE the organization. Member exodus must be stemming from some SHORTCOMING on their part: the fault lies with them.

Classic cult 101!!!!

It takes a hellava lot more courage to live your own life then it does to follow the narrow dictates of a cult.

27

JW's are an unknown fringe group

by joelbear in

i went to a dinner party tonight that had about 100 people, all non jws.

laughter and merriment and a good time was had by all.. these were good honest hard working people who have no clue as to what jws believe or that they are going to be judged according to whether they believe like witnesses do.. it impressed on my mind just how unknown witnesses are and how little people pay any attention to their message.. witnesses think they are the center of the universe.

non-witnesses don't even think about them at all.. joel

blacksheep

Yeah, as an ex-witness (had little choice-raised as one), it seems hard to believe that people can actually FUNCTION outside of that org. Typical cult mentality. They've got to inflate their importance by imagining their little group is the center of the universe. And imagine that everyone else has they EYES on them, either admiring them from relative "afar" as the pinnacle of virtue, or relentlessly persecuting and hoping to interfere with their message of "truth" to others.

Ick.