Posts by blacksheep

20

Watchtower says JW meetings follow the 1st century model

by ozziepost in

modern dub meetings follow the format of the first century christian meetings, or is that vice versa?

subliminal messages reinforce the message found in the watchtower of november 15, 2002. page six shows a picture of st paul's basilica in rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

the facing page (p7) shows an illustration of what is purported to be a meeting of first century christians.

blacksheep

"Page six shows a picture of St Paul's Basilica in Rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

Well, I've been to 20 years of JW meetings, and I've been in St Paul's Basilica once, and I can tell you I gained a LOT more "spritual refreshment" there than I ever did in the 20 years of those tiresome, non-descript meeting places filled with drones.

I wonder, did the early Christians sing 3 sets of restrained, wanna-be hymns? Did they require specific dress for men and women that didn't align with current culture? Was everything pretty much contrived? I wonder if the scolls had the passages numbered and small-print questions corresponding to the numbered passages at the bottom to "guide" the indoctrination, er, discussion.

The JWs are so far removed from intelligent spiritual discourse that their comparing themselves to the first century Christians is quite a joke in any other circle than their own. What a dreamworld they live in.

59

Let's tone down the America / War topics and get back on track

by Simon in

further to this topic:.

suggestion: should we stop threads discussing america?.

i have decided that it may be better if we call a halt to the topics about america and the war in general.. there is more background info in that topic but the key points are:all these topics are distracting from the main purpose of the board.

blacksheep

Don't know everyone's politics here. But I'm very reluctant to support a move to ban discussion on the war. What's the point? This is a community, and although JW's ARE the topic, it hardly makes sense to try to ban disucussions about what is probably at the forefront of most people's thoughts/feelings at this time.

I cannot say I agree with all the POV's put forth on the war. But I enjoy reading divergent views. It makes me think.

Please don' t ban discussions on this issue. I've seen another attempt to do so on another bd I attend. And that bd happens to be highly controlling, and supports a pretty much single viewpoint. As long as the dicussion doesn't get disprespectful, I just cannot support stifling of the ewar discussions.

Thanks for letting me air my fviews,

Blacksheep

38

JW Wife Tells DFed Husband "You've killed us all."

by Swan in

this was posted just minutes ago:.

http://katu.com/news/story.asp?id=55999.

katu 2 news - portland, oregon.

blacksheep

Hi all,

Guess this might have bene a moot point after all. In another thread on this board, I learned that Longo WAS convicted of the murder of his two older children, in addiion to that of his wife and youngest child.

Whoo hoo!!! is all I can say (after reading a few of the stories).

I cannot get the picture of those three innocent babies out of my mind....

33

tKingdom Melodies I remember/liked.

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

ok bucking the trend here, but there was some kms i liked, alot of stick has been given to "gods loyal love"....well i liked that one.

nice melody.. i think song 4 "gods promise of a paradise" too.

and song number 15 "life without end at last".....remember this was in the brown book....still like that one, especially at conventions, always guaranteed to be on the sunday programme, still get teary eyed at that one.. what i want to know is what happened to "keep your eyes on the prize"....i can remember writing those words out on a sheet and hanging it in my room, surely the classic jw kingdom melody of all time...guaranteed at conventions circa 70's/80/s......still miss it, and hum it even now occasionaly.

blacksheep

Oops, to the above post, should have said the song was played at "many a JW WEDDING ceremony."

33

tKingdom Melodies I remember/liked.

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

ok bucking the trend here, but there was some kms i liked, alot of stick has been given to "gods loyal love"....well i liked that one.

nice melody.. i think song 4 "gods promise of a paradise" too.

and song number 15 "life without end at last".....remember this was in the brown book....still like that one, especially at conventions, always guaranteed to be on the sunday programme, still get teary eyed at that one.. what i want to know is what happened to "keep your eyes on the prize"....i can remember writing those words out on a sheet and hanging it in my room, surely the classic jw kingdom melody of all time...guaranteed at conventions circa 70's/80/s......still miss it, and hum it even now occasionaly.

blacksheep

Still remembering:

"Oh Shulamite maiden, so lovely and fair,

Your spiritual virtues are many and rare."

Struggling to remember the rest. But I know that song was play at many a JW ceremony (the one few "hot" passages in the bible!)

38

JW Wife Tells DFed Husband "You've killed us all."

by Swan in

this was posted just minutes ago:.

http://katu.com/news/story.asp?id=55999.

katu 2 news - portland, oregon.

blacksheep

Hi Mr. Kim: I have read your letter. But I still do not see its relevance to this situation. First off, the guy in question obviously wasn't blindly following the WTS teachings: he was a thief, a forgerer, and lived way beyond his means. I don't think he can credit the WTS for his propensity to break the law. I don't know about the "several brothers who've killed their families and committed suicide." Never heard that one, and I'd be curious to know if a preponderance of men who've committed such heinous acts were JW's.

I personally am quite opposed to JWs, was raised one myself, and do believe they are a cult. However, I do not think I could ever use my upbringing to explain why I killed my partner and children. I honestly do not see how the WTS can be in any way responsible for this guy's obvious problems which culminated in the murder of his family. This guy was obviously not a devout JW, a responsible parent, a hardworking man who was trying his best to support his family. He was a selfish jerk and a criminal. Doesn't sound like he wanted to get help for his problems at all.

Also, regarding his wanting to have it appear that his wife killed two of his children, there's a clear motive there: one of the links here said because of the multiple murders (i.e., his entire family), he was charged with 3 more counts of aggravated murder, making the death penalty more of an appropriate call by jurors. If he can demonstrate that he only killed his wife out of rage at HER murdering their kids, and merely finished off killing one of his kids, then obviously he would be in a better position to get a reduced sentence.

Like with Andrea Yates, I always marvel at these people who say they killed their family to "send them to a better place," but they themselves don't see the merit in killing THEMSELVES. In fact, they do everything possible to avoid that outcome.

38

JW Wife Tells DFed Husband "You've killed us all."

by Swan in

this was posted just minutes ago:.

http://katu.com/news/story.asp?id=55999.

katu 2 news - portland, oregon.

blacksheep

Mr. Kim,

Frankly, you scare me. Are you suggesting that there is a whole group of JW fathers who've murdered their families because of the JW religious beliefs? Where, oh where, do the JW's recommend murdering their families?

Good God, is there a murderous group out there just waiting to hang thier warped, violent acts on on their spiritual beliefs (i.e. JW doctrine)? Sounds totally bizarre. And, as I said, scary.

28

I'm stressed

by shera in

jw
friends

hello people who read this post by me..... sometimes i don't know why i start my own threads...not any body really responds to me.i thought i had friends here,that i could whine and be a big sookie to and that would be ok.sorrie if i offend anyone here who does care.. well,some of you may know i have a disabled child with autism.i am at my end of my rope with him.i love my son a great deal but sadly to say.i may be placing him in a home.for he can get the help he needs.i know there isnot much help for austic people and i know i basically get no help for matthew.

(petty i am still thankful for what you tried to do for me,you mean a great deal to me) i have asked for help,over and over.i asked for teaching for myself,for i could help my son.it will not be givin to me.

i get some goverenment help for my son,whcich is 300 a month for care ,trasportation.it doesnt help at all.people want 10 an hour or more to take my son out,and i have to pay for places to bring him....gezzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

blacksheep

((((shera))))

I was so touched by your post. Who WOULDN'T be stressed under the circumstances? Please do not feel guilty about doing what you have to do, given your situation. I don't have any references to offer like some of these other great folks. I'm just another mom who can only imagine what strength you have. You sound like a wonderful mommy who loves her child very much, is having to simply make some difficult but sound choices for her family's well being. I wish you all the best! I am sure there should be a way for you and your son to get the help you need. Please keep us posted. And post anytime...

17

Women raised as JWs: Did the WTS views on women negatively impact you?

by berylblue in

i'd really like to know.. my experience was that women who were raised in the "truth" and married to a good jw brother did not know how to make decisions.

from reading this board, this would, however, appear to be the least of their problems.. what specifically, if any, were the problems associated with always being told you were a second class person and not capable of making decisions?.

rosemarie

blacksheep

THe potential negative: I totally mistrusted marriage--I never could see myself married to a JW husband because on some level I knew I would eventually leave. I didn't relish breaking up a marriage to finally gain psychological, emotional, and spiritual freedom. My mom, a devout JW, sounds similar to many of your moms: although she gave lip service to wifely subjection, she in reality wore the pants in the family (dad was not a JW). She also spoke pretty disprespectfully of him. I don't know, the whole marriage thing to me was such a convoluted, complicated affair as a JW; I knew I didn't want to be married to a JW, but the only non-believing role model for a husband/father was my dad.

I'm very independent; always have been, so I opted to just forgo marriage for a long, long time.

I think it also did affect my relationships with men when I finally began to date (after I'd left). You know, the whole dating/courtship, sex-only-after-marriage JW tenant. I think it made dating and relationships unnecessarily uncomfortable for me. Every relationship (certainly every sexual relationship) with a man had to potentially lead to marriage, so I think I tended to size up and reject men way too soon, as opposed to just getting to know them and see where it might lead, if anywhere. I also think the JWism (plus with a little help from Dad!) disallowed me from having any true male friendships. The whole ridiculous chaparone thing: it's as though any time a male and female are in the same room ALONE, they're going to automatically jump each others' bones.

Ugh!!! Yes, I do feel sorry for women who are on the inside. Some of my family still are, and sometimes I get the feeling they're just on the edge of a breakdown.

38

JW Wife Tells DFed Husband "You've killed us all."

by Swan in

this was posted just minutes ago:.

http://katu.com/news/story.asp?id=55999.

katu 2 news - portland, oregon.

blacksheep

“But killing their children to ensure that they get resurrected into Paradise? JWs are closer to that line than they would like to think. We may be seeing more and more cases like the Longos and the Bryants as people begin to copycat these crimes.”

I don’t see that. I think JWs as a group would find murdering their children horrendous. As would the vast majority of people. I am highly dubious about finding any plausibility in the connection between the JW beliefs and Longo’s behavior in murdering his family. So, he believed the dead would be resurrected, and they’d be in a “better place.” Why didn’t he join them, then, instead of partying it up down in Mexico? Surely, with his criminal backgroud and spotty history, he'd naturally think he might have a slim chance of getting through Armageddon, so why not off himself in an attempt to guarantee a resurrection?

The whole religious slant could apply to ANYTHING. It was used in the Andrea Yates trial as well. Her kids would be better off in heaven—it would be a better place. Funny how it is for THEM, but not for her (or Longo). Virtually any religious person, or even non-religious person who believes in some sort of afterlife can try to somehow justify murdering a loved one by claiming they were trying to do what’s best for them by sending them “to a better place.” I’m no fan of the WTS, but this guy’s just twisted, sick, has a proven criminal background (has he laid the car-thefts on his JW upbringing as well? Did he need the van to take his family and JW associates out in service? There’s a slant he might try). He is going to try anything and everything to have others gain sympathy. The “hope for a resurrection” for his children is just not a particularly compelling story. IMO t he guy’s a totally self-centered jerk who wanted to be free of his family, who loved living it up even without the money to do so. I challenge ANYone to think that the JW teachings contributed to that behavior.

(Sorry to serial post, but I didn't want to post one long,long message!)