Posts by blondie

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

blondie

Once again, thanks everyone for putting this in a form that was easy for me to see, perhaps even a couple of aha moments for me.

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

What was your favorite video game?

by LoveUniHateExams in

i've never been that big on video/computer games but i used to have a ps2 and my absolute fav game was star wars battlefront ii, released by pandemic in 2005.. you could choose to play as three different classes of soldier and fight for the rebels, the imperials, the republic or the battle droids.

as you played and gained points by killing the enemy, you could unlock a fourth and fifth class of soldier.

you could also play as a hero or villain - such as darth vader, luke skywalker, princess leia, etc.. there was something absolutely awesome playing as darth vader and cutting down or force-choking rebel soldiers on the tantive iv.. .

blondie

I have never played what I consider video games. I have played games on sites like Pogo and MSN games. Usually like Boggle, Trivial Pursuit, Scrabble, Dominoes, Bingo, Yahtzee, well you get the picture.

I sometimes play against other players and some times against the computer. I don't play on games with impatient players or foul language ones or ones where players hit on me. Otherwise in a safe setting, these games keep my mind as I get older and a little clean conversation with other players.

I try to find player groups at the same level where we are challenged to do better.

30

Do You Think Jehovah’s Witnesses Are A Threat To Any Government?

by minimus in

jw
friends

russia believes they are a threat.

the usa has put witnesses in jail in the past.

other countries look at jws as a nuisance.. do you think the witnesses are a threat to governments?

blondie

Well, they do say that Satan is ruler of these governments, that those governments are going to be destroyed soon by god. That following these governments will make individuals subject to eternal destruction when these governments are destroyed.

I think that might be part of why Russian and other totalitarian governments are going after jws and other groups that do not support the government.

But the WTS hide that ideas in the first paragraph from many governments not familiar with the sneaky ways of the WTS.

12

Update/Change In OD Coming Soon

by mr_doubtful in

there will be an update/change in the od book coming soon.

i have it on good word that this change in the od book has already been pushed out & notified to the “higher ups”.

newwww light!.

blondie

I'll wait until real confirmation, perhaps through a current elder or Atlantis.

23

U.S. Supreme Court Rejects Appeal by Jehovah’s Witnesses

by annihilator in

u.s. supreme court rejects appeal by jehovah’s witnesses of 2015 california trial court ordersan diego, ca, october 24, 2019 --(pr.com)-- on october 7, 2019, the u.s. supreme court rejected the petition for writ of certiorari filed by the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. (“watchtower”), requesting that the supreme court review a case filed by the zalkin law firm in 2013. in the case of jw v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. et.

al., the riverside superior court of california awarded the plaintiff, “j.w.,” a judgment of $4,016,152.39 plus interest at 10% per year after terminating watchtower’s defense, because it refused to obey the court’s order to produce files of known child molesters within the jw organization.

in 2018, the fourth district court of appeal in california upheld that decision.

blondie

smiddy3,

Up until 1929, the WTS did teach that the secular governments were the superior authorities. Then they changed it to "Jehovah and Jesus." Then in 1962, the went back to secular governments, adding that it is only "relative" subjection. If read the WT pubs before 1929, you will find that nothing changed as to what Bible Students should do or not do. The WTS disobeyed many edicts from the governments before 1929.

The WTS gives a dance around in 1962, even though the WTS was teaching something that was not true according to the scriptures before that saying, it did serve to be a protection for Bible Students (changed to jws in 1931 for members that had stayed with Rutherford's version of the WTS), so they did not do the things required by the secular governments. Many WT members ended up in prison, concentration camps, tarred and feathered (kills you BTW or seriously scars you), etc. But none of the leaders in NY suffered any of that.

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

blondie

I was thinking about this as I was re-reading a coming up WT study article.

Fall Guy's premise and supporting premises

a) Can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e. 144,000 humans becoming superhuman king/priests?

b) The scenario in No. 1 could never be called a “corresponding” ransom.

c) This blatant imbalance could never be called “perfect justice.”

d) “Like for like.” Explain how this makes any sense of No. 1?

The WTS like to say Jesus was a perfect man like Adam, but was he, he had know god for millions of years, a great deal of that time as the only other being. Jesus had magic powers and firsthand knowledge that Adam did not have.

Waton

I have heard of that about the tree of life. But was that tree obviously different from the other trees? Had god already identified that specific tree; nothing in Genesis seems to say that. The tree of the knowledge of good and bad had been identified to Adam and Eve (maybe indirectly by Adam to Eve).

But did Adam and Eve suddenly know the difference between good and bad when they ate from that tree? If they didn't how what was good and what was bad, could they understand that eating from that tree was bad?

Of course, if the whole story is an allegory, does it have to make sense? Does a talking snake make sense to perfect people when even imperfect can understand that is ludricous?

Half Banana

Yes, human sacrifice...we can even think back to the story of Abraham being told to sacrifice his son. Maybe god knew he was not going to let Abraham go through with literally sacrificing his son, but Abraham didn't, Abraham was willing to actually kill his son because god told him to do it. If you think about it, Jesus literally died and god allowed it, even planned it. So evidently, god did approve of human sacrifice.

btlc,

btlc, there are 581 pages, do you know what page it is on? I am going to read that and come back and amend this; I want to see the specifics for their disagreement.

dubstepped,

1) Two imperfect people sinned yet one coming from his sky daddy could fix it all and somehow balance the scales of justice? Is this just because women don't count?

I'm sure the WTS would say as the head of his "household," Adam was responsible for what his family members did, especially since Adam knew Eve had eaten, did not say that it was wrong, but instead he and his wife hid from god (ludicrous if you think about it), and then Eve blamed the snake and Adam blamed his wife. Neither was repentant, but Adam would be ultimately responsible.

2) And what did it really prove? Jesus wasn't some ordinary human. He had magic powers and Adam nor Eve had those. He had a prehuman existence and relationship with god.

I wondered about that too, how was Jesus like god. He had known god personally for years, as the only other being alive. Then later the angels came, and Jesus was appointed over them.

3) still asked why his father had forsaken him while going through this, not the bastion of strength one expected,

But then the WTS has an excuse for Jesus regarding this. He had always been with god and had his support for millions of years; this was the first time he was completely disconnected from god (crap as usually)

Very excellent points by everyone. Not that hard to see when reading Genesis. By the time I got to the end of reading Genesis, I had so many questions and observations of the confusing and conflicting statements, it took me some time to look up the WTS explanations. They were all what I called dance arounds or work arounds. This is true (without proof) so this is true (what?!). If you don't understand, then faith will be necessary. What!?

16

Holiday Plans

by Kathy1978 in

anyone doing anything interesting/fun for the holidays this year?

we got some presents for our kids and a tree.

other than that, just chillin.

blondie

We have a fake very real looking tree, that I decorate. We just don't put it in the front window. We have a special meal while we are on vacation during that time. We plan on visiting some ex-jws on the way down if they are around. Otherwise we will have turkey sandwiches, crudites and dip, pumpkin pie, and eggnog and coffee. We will stop at a rest stop along the way. We are taking a couple of gifts to open during the trip. Otherwise we will do it Christmas Eve. In days gone by we went to a music venue for a free singing secular Christmas songs and a few well-known quasi religious ones. All free. We watch some of those traditional movies too, like the Grinch one (haha).

27

Hotels Deny Watchtower Discount Rates For 2020 Regional Conventions

by JW GoneBad in

the wtbts is not being given special room rates by 2 major hotels at the long beach convention center area for the upcoming 2020 regional conventions & wt is t'd off.

letters are being read in surrounding circuits and congregations.

apparently wt is afraid that other hotels are going to blackball them as well.. has anyone else heard this?

blondie

We had better rates through AAA or our government status, and used that. Those rates were much lower than any offered in the WTS booking system.

We just didn't advertise our windfall and be told that we should be supporting the WTS financially through the booking system.

Remember, when jws were told not to eat at outside food vendors but support the food "arrangement" at the assemblies/conventions?

Then in 1990, the WTS suspended paying for food those "arrangements" and in 1995 the WTS told jws they had to bring their own food, and cut the time allowed for lunch supposedly not enough time for jws to go to restaurants (many still did go to restaurants and just came late).

30

Good memories of full-time service?

by fulano in

perhaps not a topic for everybody... mine.. in both sp service in a foreign field in europe , the freedom and helping people to read and write in spanish .

doing a lot of work in the congregations.. in missionary-service.. helping congregations in a third-world country and see good results in family relations.

and the siestas from 13:00 to 15:00..... who has good memories of bethel?

blondie

sparky1,

The place was loaded with back stabbing, throat slitting, ladder climbing, hypocritical, boot licking, sycophantic, corporate stooges that were merely god intoxicated religious fanatics.

I saw that and had Bethelites confide to me their negative experiences and they trusted very few other people there with their true feelings. They tended to be closer to the people in their congregation.

In the home congregation setting, there was more space and privacy literally than living at Bethel.