Great answers
Posts by blondie
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14Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare
by Vanderhoven7 ini would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.
here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.
helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!
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venting: My wife is the most dangerous kind of JW
by goingthruthemotions ini need to vent again here.
because i have no one else to talk with and no one who really understands except for the people here.
my wife is the most dangerous kind of jw.
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blondie
truth_b_known
Actually, in only one place does the WTS put a different spin on Acts 17:10,11 showing that the Bereans approach was not the same for baptized jws.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1981127?q=acts+17%3A10%2C11&p=sen
A NOBLE-MINDED VIEW
How shall we view the spiritual food provided by this “faithful and discreet slave”? Should it be viewed critically—‘Oh, well, it might be true but then again it might not be and so we have to scrutinize it very critically’? Some apparently have felt that way about it. To support their way of thinking they have quoted Acts 17:11, which says of newly interested persons at Beroea: “Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”
But does this mean that those Beroeans were looking for flaws in the message they were hearing, or that their attitude was one of doubting? Does this set a precedent for regarding critically the publications brought forth by the “faithful and discreet slave,” with a view to finding fault? Not at all!
First of all, let us note the setting of the statement about the noble-minded Beroeans. Paul, accompanied by Silas, was on his second missionary tour. Due to persecution that arose, the brothers at Thessalonica sent them on to Beroea. In Beroea they met sincere Jews who had strong faith in God’s Word. These were not Christians yet. They were simply interested persons who had to satisfy themselves that what Paul was telling them had the support of the Hebrew Scriptures.
Up to this time, these devout Jews in Beroea may never have heard of Jesus Christ. What Paul was telling them was entirely new. So those noble-minded Jews in Beroea searched the Scriptures daily to make certain that the references that Paul gave were really part of God’s Word. And with what mental attitude did they pursue their studies? With a skeptical attitude, trying to prove Paul wrong? No, they were altogether unlike Paul’s critics on Mars Hill, for we read that they heard Paul’s testimony with “the greatest eagerness of mind.”—Acts 17:11, 32.
These Beroeans listened with a readiness, yes, an eagerness, to believe. Thus not only were they open-minded, but they were wanting to have this “good news” proved true. In fact, for a person to acquire faith he must have “the will to believe.” If he is determined not to believe, then no amount of evidence will convince him; for if a person looks for them he can always find excuses, plausible reasons for not accepting the accountability that belief will bring upon him. As the apostle Paul well said: “Faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thess. 3:2) But the Beroeans had the will to believe. They considered what they heard with a receptive frame of mind. As a result, “many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.”—Acts 17:12.
Jesus’ disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in “the way of the truth.” (2 Pet. 2:2) But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about.
OUR VIEW OF THE “SLAVE”
We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his “slave” to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the “remnant” and of the “other sheep,” than anywhere else upon earth.
True, the brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18) However, this has resulted in a continual refining of the body of Bible-based truth to which Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe. Over the years, as adjustments have been made to that body of truth, it has become ever more wonderful and applicable to our lives in these “last days.” Bible commentators of Christendom are not inspired either. Despite their claims to great knowledge, they have failed to highlight even basic Bible truths—such as the coming Paradise earth, the importance of God’s name, and the condition of the dead.
Rather, the record that the “faithful and discreet slave” organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, “Whom shall we go away to?” (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the “faithful and discreet slave” organization.
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Yesterday's Watchtower Study (from October issue) "Stay Faithful Through the Gt. Tribulation"
by BluesBrother inthis article has all the trappings of wts apocalyptic theology, doom and destruction for "the world" salvation into paradise for the faithful .a schedule of future events is described thus :.
1) a worldwide proclamation of peace and security.
2) the destruction of "babylon the great"......it confidently names the characters from this visionary biblical reference, without any supporting reasons.. 3)the nations will then , as gog of magog , attack the wts and the members .
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blondie
Good catch, Blues Brother. I call these words and phrases you bolded, weasel words. It leaves the WTS a way out to say, "we never said it was a sure thing, just possible.:
Notice par 8;
"Currently, we are preaching the good news of the Kingdom and we are endeavoring to make disciples. But at that time, we may well deliver a message as hard-hitting as hailstones. (Rev. 16:21) We may proclaim the impending doom of Satan’s world. In time, we will find out exactly what our message will be and how we will deliver it. Will we use the same methods we have used for over a hundred years to accomplish our ministry? Or will we use some other methods? We will have to wait and see. In any case, it seems that we will have the privilege of boldly proclaiming Jehovah’s judgment message"
Can we be blamed for not accepting a message so full of uncertainties?
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The Evolution Of The Watchtower Cult
by pale.emperor insince waking up from the cult i've been curious about where the cult is going and how will it end up?
will it fizzle out or become a little fringe "religion" like plymouth bretheren or the shakers?.
we've already seen the cult evolve from:.
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blondie
pale emperor, and that is just the short list. The WTS has a listing of Clarifications and Adjustments in the indexes.
The September 2019 WT study article, Look, a Great Crowd, goes back into the late past of the WTS and the changes in teachings back then and why. It seems strange that they take the chance of bringing up old light. Perhaps the reason is it is too readily available to jws online and causing confusion.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/
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Organized Book Change
by thedepressedsoul ini made this post yesterday.
i couldn't remember my login info for this account.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6247826114740224/update-change-od-coming-soon.
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blondie
Maybe the COs will just read it to the elders without giving them a copy like the non-letter a few years ago about taking a blood transfusion no longer being a df'ing offense but an act of da'ing yourself.
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Publisher ID - I Saw It In Person & It Was Terrifying!
by thedepressedsoul ini'd like to start off this post by saying, we all know that the wt loves control.
it's clear by their history, their wt's, the elder arrangement and so on.
however, after witnessing and using the publish id program in person, it takes this need for control to a whole new level & it was scary.. if you've ever seen builder assist (the website program used for ldc volunteers) or the metro program, it actually looks pretty similar to that.
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blondie
Do people from the UK show up on this or other countries with data protection laws? Do they get this info direct from the person or are the elders entering the info they have on the people in their congregation, current or inactive, df'd, da'd, and faders.
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Update/Change In OD Coming Soon
by mr_doubtful inthere will be an update/change in the od book coming soon.
i have it on good word that this change in the od book has already been pushed out & notified to the “higher ups”.
newwww light!.
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blondie
Don't you have to have that app for it to work?
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FOOD FOR THOUGHT November 3, 2019 WT Study Article (September 2019) JAH VALUES HUMBLE SERVANTS
by blondie inblondie’s food for thought, 11/03/2019 wt study article, jah values humble servants, september 2019. https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/jehovah-values-his-humble-servants/.
opening comments/food for thought.
i first asked myself, why does the wts sometimes use the word “servant” then “slave”?
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blondie
BLONDIE’S FOOD FOR THOUGHT, 11/03/2019 WT STUDY ARTICLE, JAH VALUES HUMBLE SERVANTS, SEPTEMBER 2019
Opening Comments/Food For Thought
I first asked myself, why does the WTS sometimes use the word “servant” then “slave”? Are we led to assume that servant = slave? Is a servant the same as a slave? Servants are employees of a person with set duties, set work hours, and paid a wage. Slaves are owned by the person, must do what they are asked to do with no set schedule and are not paid, except for a place to live, food to eat. Servants after serving the period of time agreed upon between them and the employer, can leave. Slaves cannot, except in the case of Israel, where it was a specific period of time, 7 years or at the Jubilee.
Now I know that there is probably the possibility of a detailed discussion of the Greek and Hebrew words and their meanings. But what does the average jw think when they see the words, servant or slave?
Can you think of ways neither the WTS or its members, especially those in appointed positions, are not humble based on their actions and words?
Paragraph 1
Notice the WTS does not just say “relationship” but “warm, personal relationship.” Does that mean you can have a lukewarm, impersonal relationship with god?
Who are the haughty? Jws who do not completely support the WTS/GB in everything, even when it is clear it is not scriptural or the WTS doesn’t even use a scripture that clearly talks about their point? Or do they use words like, “apparently” or “likely,” to couch their statements?
Paragraph 2
Are individual jws allowed only to test their humility or are there appointed and self-appointed jws that do it for you, and tell others behind your back and rarely to your face?
Paragraph 3
Are elders humble when apply to themselves what the bible seems to say that they are due “double honor” just for holding the position of elder? If you are or were an elder, what was said at the BOE meetings as to what that meant? What were elders doing that would make them worthy of that label? How does that make them humble, acknowledging as the WTS says “everyone is superior to him in some way”?
They were “worthy of double honor,” including voluntary material assistance for their hard work in behalf of the congregation.
Paragraph 4
Did/do you know people who only tried to appear humble in public. Or some only because their culture/upbringing taught them to be that way in public. (I wonder what cultures they were thinking about, certainly not the US). “Deep down they are may actually be very prideful…reveal what they truly are at heart.” Based on the statement, that elders are worthy of double honor, do you think that the WTS is thinking about rank and file members? Sounds like the elders are doing what the WTS is “suggesting” they do or putting on an act.
Paragraph 5
“Confident…forthright…not necessarily proud.” Who judges which jws are like that? Are these characteristics of “outgoing personalities” or is that a euphemism for bossy, abusive people? At the same time the WTS cautions “must be careful not to rely on their natural ability.” Again, I think they are addressing elders about this. Yes, no one no matter their abilities or privileges can disregard the WTS/GB “loving” counsel.
Paragraph 6
Example, Paul: Used mightily (meaning publicly, many privileges, wrote many letters eventually put in the bible, visiting many congregations, accomplished more in the ministry, etc.) Do you know jws who point to their special privileges, number of hours in the ministry, and so on as proof that they have more value to god? Yes, Paul said he was “the least of the apostles” did he mean one of the 12 apostles selected by Jesus, including Matthias who was selected afterwards to replace Judas, by casting lots (like dice)? So how was he the least of the apostles, if he wasn’t one of the 12?
So, weren’t other elders in the congregation that wanted to prove themselves superior to Paul, not the rank and file members?
Or was it the “superfine apostles” mentioned in 2 Corinthians 11:5?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971368?q=paul+apostle+twelve&p=par
● Was the apostle Paul one of the twelve apostles?
The evidence reveals that, while Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ, he is not presented by the Bible as one of the “twelve apostles.”
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Jehovah’s people—just substitute “only jws”
So recently the WTS said that those self-reported anointed jws, should not introduce themselves as “anointed,” and I thought does that mean that other jws should identify them as anointed and special to other jws? Why was he allowed to go 2 years without going out talking to others about the kingdom without any seeming repercussions? How long did he harbor resentment because of receiving counsel, how did he receive new counsel after “harboring” resentment? So why should it be hard for a “well-known” brother to admit his “weaknesses”? Did you know of elders (perhaps you) who “freely” admitted “weaknesses” or making mistakes? I never did. Perhaps elders only admit them to other elders.
I wonder how many elders applied this counsel from the WTS/GB?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993847?q=admit+mistakes+elder&p=par#h=22
An elder may be reluctant to admit a mistake because he fears that this will undermine his authority in the congregation. However, trying to justify, ignore, or minimize a mistake is much more likely to cause others to lose confidence in his oversight.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201982444?q=admit+mistakes+elders&p=par
Talk on subject “Why Admit It When You Are Wrong?” from September 1, 1982, Watchtower. Elders and publishers alike need to acknowledge their own mistakes with humility and honesty, not taking themselves too seriously. This can work for the upbuilding of all.
Paragraph 8
Who wrote the book, “Come Be My Follower”? It is a WT publication. Why no reference to that in the publication? So, the WTS is supporting their WT article with another publication with the opinion in it.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Come-Be-My-Follower/
Paragraph 9
So, if you don’t have many people who talk to you or are your “friend,” does that mean you aren’t humble enough? Does that mean you “insist on your own way and refuse to accept suggestions”? The first BOE meeting a new elder attended, the COBOE said that in his congregation “it was his way or the highway.” Wow! Where is the “fellow feeling, brotherly affection, tender compassion, and humility” in that statement, and that was to the other elders!
Paragraph 10
“We may observe things that do not SEEM to be right or fair.” Why combine what is right with what is fair? Is what is right always what is fair.” So, do the “princes” in your congregation walk as the servants do? Is recognition more important than having abilities? Is that why men who know nothing about construction can be put in charge of trained construction workers? Does that mean that man is given more recognition than the people who actually did the work? So, should jws face the reality of serious wrongdoing by other members and “wait on Jehovah” to correct things? Should the “accept life as it is, not as we think it should be”?
Paragraph 11
“When we receive counsel” does that mean that the elders are giving us counsel because they really “care” about the person? Who tends to “reject” counsel more often, elders who feel that their authority cannot be questioned, even when they are wrong? Why can only other elders “correct” and elder when he is wrong? Do elders correct other elders when a rank and file member points out that that elder is wrong?
Paragraph 12
Should we “appreciate” counsel about things that we know we didn’t do, can prove it? I did that once and the elder said, “well, maybe you didn’t do it this time, but how do I know you haven’t done it, and no one found out?”
So, counsel by the elders can be compared to pointing out someone has food on their teeth? Why not some poor woman seeing a brother has not zipped his pants zipper. Who is brave enough to point that out?
Paragraph 13
“When others receive ‘privileges of service’” Who coined that phrase? It makes it seem like those who are not given those by imperfect men, those people are not valued. Why is it that some men in the congregation who don’t have these POS for years, move to another congregation and suddenly are being used for everything, MS then quickly elder, giving public talks every month, appointed to school servant, conducting a book study, all within month? Did he suddenly develop the qualities he had not had at the other congregation in one month?
Paragraph 14
So, Moses had left his brother Aaron in charge when he went up to the mountain and what happened? The Israelites were frightened by the mountain shaking and smoking, and Aaron let them make a golden calf and worship it. Aaron managed not to be killed like the other Israelites. Why? If Moses could not trust his own brother to handle things, why should he think he could trust others?
Paragraph 15
“When we face new circumstances” Change of assignment—a euphemism for “being kicked to the curb” after many years of “faithful” service at Bethel, the branches, as a missionary, a special pioneer, a circuit or district overseer 70 or over, or an elder over 80 as being a COBOE? These were not “because of health problems, family circumstances or other personal circumstances” but the arbitrary decision of the WTS/GB because the WTS/GB is having financial troubles.
Paragraph 16
Adjustments—like suddenly having to support themselves after years of not paying into social security or similar retirement plans, because of the vow of poverty they made required by the WTS administration. Now in order to qualify in the US, these people must work FT for 4 years and accumulate 40 points to receive social security. Many jw family members have died or in no financial situation to help. Will their last congregation (not their assigned Bethel one) help them out, do they remember them, will they want to support some stranger?
Are they grieving leaving their friends, or returning to an unknown financial situation after years of living a frugal life? How many times has the WTS/GB in the past venerated Bethelites that served their whole adult lives to Bethel? How should they expect their God to support them in “practical” ways if not through the other jws they know?
Paragraph 17
So are the GB cultivating humility, if they are autographing the bibles of adoring jws, or the ones who want to have a jw selfie, with a GB member, or the jws that describe them first as of the anointed, as if that is more special than an older woman in their congregation who has done more in the preaching work than that GB could even imagine doing?
CONCLUDING FINAL FOOD FOR THOUGHT
I found in every congregation, that the really humble people were those who did not judge others and whether they had value to their god or to the congregation. When I was still believing, I felt that the only thing that mattered is what god thought about me and I could be confident that he saw the real me and what I really thought and felt. Not something humans can do even in the official opinion of the WTS. Even they in print say that only their god and Jesus could read hearts and minds.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017643#h=26:0-28:0 (paragraph 17)
Unlike Jehovah and Jesus, elders cannot read hearts.
So, knowing this, no one else can determine what our real value is to Jesus and his father.
Now that I have this out of my system, let me know what your thoughts when you read this article or had to sit through the not-so honest answers at the meeting.
Love, Blondie
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Do You Think Jehovah’s Witnesses Are A Threat To Any Government?
by minimus inrussia believes they are a threat.
the usa has put witnesses in jail in the past.
other countries look at jws as a nuisance.. do you think the witnesses are a threat to governments?
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blondie
I did say this:
"are going after jws and other groups that do not support the government." I could amend it to "seem" not to support
Mormons, Muslims, Baptists, and other groups are under the same siege. During WW2 and other wars, even in countries like Australia, the US, the UK, etc., the WTS was targeted aggressively.
So the WTS cannot claim to be special.
