if someone put a gun to your head and you had to choose, which one would you say is the worst?
also, which religion is more doctrinally incorrect?
which religion has the most false end of the world dates?
Did anyone see the South Park episode about the Mormons? It had the history of the church being sung, along with a chorus of "Dum,Dum,Dum,Dum,Dum". It was a riot.
When I was 18 I "moved to where the need was greater" to a Mormon community and had lots of experiences witnessing to Mormons. I studied for a couple years with one very nice, intelligent woman with 9 children who had gone to BYU. She was absolutely stunned to learn that Jesus did not speak the English of the King James Version.
does anyone post here who is from northern california?
Brother Snow was the CO for my circuit when I was probably in my early to mid teens. Everyone in our congregation loved him.
does anyone post here who is from northern california?
I live on the east coast now, but grew up (and spent my witness days) in Marin County.
my wife is getting baptized on the 19th.
there is nothing i can do or say to stop it.
we have 3 children, and i am from a broken home, so i can't imagine divorcing.
my choice of "lucky" is partly due to the fact that I feel lucky to be out. But I also chose it because I remember when I was younger I had a asked my mom why we could say "fortunate", but not "lucky" (I must have been learning about synonyms in school!) She didn't have a good answer.
my wife is getting baptized on the 19th.
there is nothing i can do or say to stop it.
we have 3 children, and i am from a broken home, so i can't imagine divorcing.
My mom was baptized when I was two and my dad is not a witness. I am out but I have a younger brother and sister (now in their 20's) who are still in. When we were very young, my dad did make a stand about us not being allowed to go out in service and not being allowed to go to evening meetings. I do remember, especially in the earlier years, that my mom and dad would argue a lot about doctrinal stuff and I'd usually think that my dad made the most sense (of course, I could never tell my mom that). But by the time I was in mid-elementary school my mom had wore him down and we were completely consumed by witness activities. My dad more or less wimped out. The only time he put up a fuss was when I got baptized when I was 16. By the time my brother got baptized when he was 12, my dad didn't say much of anything.
When I was having the most doubts (age 12-15, I would say), I remember wishing that my dad would step in and exercise a little bit of authority. I hated going out in service and to the meetings, but I was afraid to stand up to my mom. I remember in junior high, in particular, I felt like I had nothing in common with the witness kids my age and I had a very good friend at school who my mom wouldn't let me hang out with. I remember wanting to do after school activities and go to dances and my mom said no. If only my dad had stood up to my mom, I think my life would have turned out very differently. My dad never did anything and I eventually ended up just getting sucked in (I just sort of bottled up all the doubts).
I remember that there was an elder in our congregation who had a good job who had been raised as a witness in a divided household. His dad made him go to college. Even in high school, after I had gotten baptized, I remember always hoping that my dad would actually put his foot down and MAKE me go to college, but he never did. Of course, being the good witness girl, I worked part time for minimum wage and pioneered after high school. Because my dad had become so "hands-off" about it all (and his arguing with my mom about doctrinal issues in earlier years had turned him into an "opposer") it somehow turned the whole household dynamic into an "us" (mom and the kids) vs. "him" situation, even though I had SO many doubts about witness stuff.
I guess my advice, based on my experience, is that although you don't want to be an "opposing" mate (and I agree, this is especially important initially), you definitely need to provide options for your kids. If you feel that you can, present an alternate view on doctrinal issues to them privately (don't turn it into an argument with your wife). You'd be surprised at how many doctrinal issues don't make sense to kids at even a very early age (at least, they didn't to me). Make a point to let them do things with non-witness friends. Celebrate the holidays. Encourage non-witness after school activities. Let them play sports. Take them to another church with a good pastor once in a while. Do anything you can do to broaden their horizons. I can tell you from experience that when you've been raised as a witness with no options it is VERY hard to get out (it took me 8 years after I was baptized), even if doubts were present from a young age.
You sound like a caring, concerned dad. Hang in there and good luck!
before i start, i just want to say that this is not any sort of conspiracy-type thread and i don't believe russell was a member of the illuminati.. i just finished reading dan brown's angels&demons, before which i hadn't even heard of the illuminati.
it struck me as curious that the "new world order" as described in the book had some similarities with the society's teachings regarding events in revelation (including the name itself).
in particular, i found it interesting that the illuminati were/are seeking to destroy religion and establish a worldwide government.
thanks, everyone.
before i start, i just want to say that this is not any sort of conspiracy-type thread and i don't believe russell was a member of the illuminati.. i just finished reading dan brown's angels&demons, before which i hadn't even heard of the illuminati.
it struck me as curious that the "new world order" as described in the book had some similarities with the society's teachings regarding events in revelation (including the name itself).
in particular, i found it interesting that the illuminati were/are seeking to destroy religion and establish a worldwide government.
sorry - I didn't realize that this topic had been already brought up so frequently. I had done a search for "Illuminati" before I posted, but I had trouble with the search engine. Thanks for the links to the other threads.
Having been raised a witness, Dan Brown's books were real eye openers for me - I guess I never had much understanding at all of Church history and I've become intrigued by the Knights Templar, Masons and Illuminati. When I started doing some web research and came across the supposed Witness ties to Masonry, my curiousity was definitely piqued. Although at this point I've read enough to be fairly convinced that Russell wasn't a Mason, it's still definitely an interesting topic and a whole new world to me. At a minimum, it's made me realize that I certainly don't know the whole story about how Christendom came to be (and I was so convinced I did with all my witness "education"!)
before i start, i just want to say that this is not any sort of conspiracy-type thread and i don't believe russell was a member of the illuminati.. i just finished reading dan brown's angels&demons, before which i hadn't even heard of the illuminati.
it struck me as curious that the "new world order" as described in the book had some similarities with the society's teachings regarding events in revelation (including the name itself).
in particular, i found it interesting that the illuminati were/are seeking to destroy religion and establish a worldwide government.
Before I start, I just want to say that this is not any sort of conspiracy-type thread and I don't believe Russell was a member of the illuminati.
I just finished reading Dan Brown's Angels&Demons, before which I hadn't even heard of the Illuminati. It struck me as curious that the "New World Order" as described in the book had some similarities with the society's teachings regarding events in Revelation (including the name itself). In particular, I found it interesting that the Illuminati were/are seeking to destroy religion and establish a worldwide government. The organization teaches (at least they did when I left) that government will turn on babylon the great and destroy her and that the witnesses will be the only ones left standing. I was curious if this is a teaching that is unique to the witnesses, or do other religions interpret the events in Revelation the same way? If it's unique to the witnesses, does anyone else find it an interesting parallel with Illuminati teachings?
hello everyone.. i am new to this board (although i have "lurked" on and off for the past few years and feel that i know many of you .
i will give a brief bit of background and then ask for some advice.
my mom was baptized when i was very young and i was raised in the truth, along with my siblings.
Thanks, everyone, for your support and advice. I still don't know what to do. I guess for now, I will keep the "status quo" since I don't want to risk anything and I do have the constant hope that,even if my mom doesn't ever leave the witnesses, my younger siblings will someday decide they want to leave and that I'll be able to help them. And I talk to my mom regularly (mostly about her problems) and I can't imagine not being able to do that. I don't really feel that not being disassociated or disfellowshipped (I've been out of the truth for 7 years now) has really slowed up my "healing" at all. My husband cannot understand how I still want to maintain contact with my mom after my tumultous upbringing, but I do.
But I also hate the thought of having to keep secrets (especially if it's potentially from "grandma"). I don't have any contact with any witnesses here in the local congregation (other than the one time an elder and his wife who came to visit me once a number of years ago at my mom's request). I don't have any contact with any witnesses other than my family. I HATE this!! It's so frustrating to finally feel "free" from the organization but still be essentially lying to my family. I know that if I told my mom that I was celebrating birthdays she'd freak out and tell the elders. I guess I can blame it on my husband, but I've been wimpy and spent the past seven years telling my mom that he doesn't care about holidays and doesn't miss them (which is true in part. We don't celebrate Christmas other than giving his parents and friends gifts. We do do birthdays, though). I guess I was hoping that the elders would tell her that since I'm far away and not "bringing reproach on Jehovah's organization" it's not worth making a fuss over.
There must be other people in this situation...what have you done? How have you handled it? Also, what about Christmas? I feel weird about starting to celebrate Christmas (I'm certainly not dogmatic anymore about not saying "happy holidays" or exchanging gifts with friends, but we've never had a tree or decorated or actually exchanged gifts ourselves) especially since I no longer consider myself Christian anyways and I don't have any emotional attachment to it (other than a negative one). But I'm sure that having kids changes all this. I don't want any potential kids to be outcasts (especially without a reason).
hello everyone.. i am new to this board (although i have "lurked" on and off for the past few years and feel that i know many of you .
i will give a brief bit of background and then ask for some advice.
my mom was baptized when i was very young and i was raised in the truth, along with my siblings.
Hello everyone.
I am new to this board (although I have "lurked" on and off for the past few years and feel that I know many of you already. Thank you for the huge help your comments have been).
I will give a brief bit of background and then ask for some advice. My mom was baptized when I was very young and I was raised in the truth, along with my siblings. I was baptized when I was 16 and after high school graduation pioneered for five years. I had numerous doubts growing up, but told myself (and prayed to Jehovah and told him) from an early age (11 or 12) that the 1914 generation teaching was my "out": if the Society ever changed its teachings about this policy it was my sign that it was not the truth and that I should leave. After the district convention during which the society changed its policy (1995, I believe?) I made my decision, but it still took me a couple years to get the guts to leave. I've read with interest all the posts regarding "fading". I guess due to my overachieving personality, this never seemed like an option to me. In fact, the last month that I was active, I auxiliary pioneered. The month I left I got married to an "unbeliever" (this seemed like a good excuse for an "out" and I barely knew him at the time, but miraculously, seven years later, we're still happily married). I somehow convinced my mother (who was understandably devastated) and the elders in my congregation that I was just stressed out and needed a break and some time to think. A few months later, my husband and I moved across the country. Aside from a shepherding call (during which I was very pleasant but didn't talk much) arranged by my mother in our new location, I haven't had any contact with witnesses since.
Here's my dilemma: my mother (and my siblings, who are active witnesses) think that I am "inactive" but still believe it is the truth (which I definitely don't). My husband and I have recently begun to attempt to start a family. We would like to raise our child/children in a "normal" way. Since leaving the witnesses, I have voted, exchanged gifts for birthdays and holidays with other relatives and friends, watched R rated movies, etc. I have kept all of my "worldy activities" a secret from my family, which has been difficult at times. Obviously, after having children, my mother will wonder why I'm not raising them in accordance with "my" beliefs and keeping this a secret will be much harder. What should I do? I'm tired of pretending that I still believe it's the truth, but I don't want to lose my family. My mother very much "toes the line" and talks to the elders about everything. She is also extremely emotionally unstable and I know that even in my "inactive" state, I still provide her with a lot of emotional support. Can I still be disfellowshipped after all these years?
Thank you :-)
