Hart says that Arius represented the traditional view and that Nicene theology was the innovation. He couldn’t be clearer about that. For Hart it apparently doesn’t matter that the early Christians believed in a subordinate Christ rather than the Trintiy of equals because he is prepared to believe in a development of theology. For JWs, of course, what the earliest Christians believed is determinative.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
Yes Jesus is distinguished from God (ho theos) in John 1.1 as a god (theos), described as “the firstborn of all creation” in Col 1.15, and is exalted in Phil 2.5–11 “to the glory of God the Father”. After Nicaea these verses had to be explained as not contradicting the novel doctrine of the Trinity, but earlier Christians took these and other passages at face value as meaning what they said.
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
Yes, according to David Bentley Hart, and other scholars of the period, the earliest Christians viewed Jesus as subordinate to God, the highest angel. Arius reflected this early tradition better than the Nicene faction who introduced its Trinitarian theology as a later innovation. Hart points out that you can see the change if you read Eusebius before and after the council of Nicaea.
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
The earliest Christology is angel Christology. This fell away in the fourth century after Nicaea, but the earliest Christians conceived of Jesus as the highest being in service of God, the unique Son. See scholar David Bentley Hart explain this at the 48 minutes mark in this interview
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The Greeks had a word for it, but the Watchtower didn't
by Nathan Natas ini recall as though it was only 60 years ago, sitting in the kingdom hall on those horrible chairs, learning of the four forms of love: agape, philia, storge and eros.. the watchtower never mentioned pragma.. pragma: this is a committed, compassionate love that often grows as two partners continue to cherish and care for each other.
this type of love is associated with being together for a long time.
in some cases, the passion of eros can grow into pragma over time, this forging a lasting bond.. i think i know why; the watchtower isn't into committed, compassionate, cherishing and caring, are they?.
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slimboyfat
Is it used in this sense anywhere in the NT? But then, neither does Eros?
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
According to who? Margaret Barker, the Mormons, and few besides.
The most quoted OT verse in the entire NT is Psalm 110.1 in which YHWH is explicitly distinguished from and superior to the messianic Lord.
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Annual Report
by St George of England inthe latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.
george.
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slimboyfat
Yes definitely. I’m still reeling from the fact that people don’t have a physical Bible and don’t bother looking up the scriptures any more. It used to be at the convention that you’d hear the rustle of thousands of pages as everybody located the scripture the speaker was reading. Now, silence.
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
Many still held that Yahweh was the God/son assigned to Israel by the Most High and therefore a second power like the Logos.
I think this is the particular view of Margaret Barker and of Mormons. I don’t think it’s otherwise a common view in scholarship.
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408
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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slimboyfat
To the extent that Jews viewed the “second power” in heaven as an emanation of God, they did not view it as a person. And to the extent that they viewed the “second power” as a person, he was always distinct and subordinate to God. In neither case is it compatible with the later Trinity doctrine. The second formulation, however, the principal angelic being, God’s firstborn, known various as archangel, Word, Wisdom, messiah, Son of Man, is compatible with JW understanding of who Jesus is.
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Age Appropriate Friends
by Riley inwe have a 25 year guy in our hall who is also a pioneer (which means he lives off his parents money), who likes to spend a lot of time with a 16 year old girl in the hall.
it is usually in a group setting but he seems to gravitate toward her.
he even has her auxilary pioneering , which is something i don't think any student trying to make the grades needs.
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slimboyfat
You could say something if you’re concerned - 16 seems too young for a 25 year old. She should finish school or be at least 18 before dating. There’s perhaps too little information to go on here. Other relevant factors might include where are the parents here? What country is this? Has he dated other sisters? Has she dated other brothers? How sure are you that he is interested in her? What does the phrase “has her auxiliary pioneering” mean? He put her up to it? How do you know?
I don’t think it could harm if you expressed genuine concern reasonably. Why not talk to her parents rather than an elder? If you make it clear it’s genuine concern, and not some kind of congregational action, it might be received okay. Then again, maybe a relevant safe-guarder would be more appropriate than a parent, if any exist in the congregation.
Do you have a trusted person in the congregation you can ask if they view the situation similarly, or if they have more information, or a different perspective?
Maybe there’s a qualified person here who can give a better answer.