Posts by slimboyfat

79

JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 in

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ja2 replies4 retweets12 likes.

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slimboyfat

That having been said, I have another thought:

This is a religion that seems almost addicted to making unnecessary alterations. Consider the fact that many religions are content to use the same hymns for hundreds of years, whereas Watchtower feels the urge to create a substantially new song book every 20 years or so. Or all the other pointless terminological changes over the years: swapping assemblies and conventions back and forward, circuit servant and circuit overseer, region/convention, sanctified/vindicated, presiding overseer/coordinator, and so on.

Consider the name of the Watchtower magazine itself. It’s had about five different titles in 140 years, whereas The Christadelphian magazine has had the same name since 1869.

Could it simply be that some brother piped up during a GB meeting and said, “we’ve not changed the baptism questions for nearly 40 years”. Someone was assigned to “improve” the questions, and this is what he came up with? Making direct reference to Jehovah might be construed as in some sense more revenrtial, like how they boast about the song book using Jehovah’s name more often than Jesus.

Could it just be change for change’s sake, and nothing more? Sometimes attempting to derive meaning from Watchtower actions is Kremlinology at its finest.

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JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 in

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ja2 replies4 retweets12 likes.

reply.

slimboyfat

Well, I’m still reserving judgment if this is for real.

If it is real, then I agree that some legal advice they have received is the best explanation, as with Bulgaria, closing the book study, and other presumably legally motivated actions.

That being said, just because Watchtower may make a decision for legal reasons, doesn’t necessarily mean it was a necessary, or even particularly advantageous change. They are clearly capable of making poor decisions which they believe to be vital or strategic, but which are in fact ineffective or even counterproductive. So if it looks and seems like a stupid change, then it might really be a stupid change.

Because I honestly cannot imagine in what scenario a religion gains benefit from removing reference to a spirit or supernatural power in their baptism. Unless they are going to systematically remove all references to the spiritual in all their activities, and quit calling it a religion, which is just absurd. Besides which, isn’t calling it “Jehovah’s organisation” just as strong a claim as calling it “spirit directed”? It doesn’t make sense on any level. But these are the people who think an overlapping generation makes sense, so there is really no telling what if any logic lies behind some of the decisions they make.

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Active JW'S - Are YOU "exercising faith?"

by The Fall Guy in

on pages 27 & 28 of the august 2019 study watchtower, it perverts the translation of scriptures yet again, in order to drum it into jw's minds that they have to work for their salvation.

“on the evening before his death, jesus told his disciples: “exercise faith in god; exercise faith also in me.” (john 14:1).

according to strong's lexicon, the greek word pisteuō is translated thus - “to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in, of the thing believed, to credit, have confidence.”.

slimboyfat

Well there are cases of bias in the NWT, but the examples I would cite are not the usual ones. For instance the 1950 NWT removed most references to “elders” in the New Testament because JW congregations didn’t have elders at that time. In the 2013 revision they put elders back into the text because JWs now have elders.

Another instance is the use of the word “impale” in the old NWT for the execution of Jesus, an awkward and misleading rendering resulting from their extreme aversion of the words cross and crucify, which has now been abandoned in the 2013 version.

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Active JW'S - Are YOU "exercising faith?"

by The Fall Guy in

on pages 27 & 28 of the august 2019 study watchtower, it perverts the translation of scriptures yet again, in order to drum it into jw's minds that they have to work for their salvation.

“on the evening before his death, jesus told his disciples: “exercise faith in god; exercise faith also in me.” (john 14:1).

according to strong's lexicon, the greek word pisteuō is translated thus - “to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in, of the thing believed, to credit, have confidence.”.

slimboyfat

Watchtower has argued that the particular construction used (“faith into”; eis) calls for a rendering that emphasises action in addition to belief. A few scholars have made comments which lend some support this idea. As with a lot of criticism of the NWT, it’s far from straightforward that the NWT is tendentious or has got it wrong. Just because the NWT may be unusual in many of its renderings doesn’t mean there is no basis or insight behind their perspective.

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JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 in

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ja2 replies4 retweets12 likes.

reply.

slimboyfat

If this change is for real, among other things, doesn’t it once again display complete disregard for ordinary JWs? Many religious organisations would consult members before making such an important change. Far less than consulting members, often Watchtower doesn’t even offer any explanation for such changes. Wouldn’t it be at least courteous to ordinary JWs who have already been baptised using the old wording, as well as prospective members using the new wording, to explain the reasons for the change? Instead ordinary JWs are left to speculate and wonder: as lesser mortals they apparently have no right to know the whys and wherefores of changes that impact them personally. Watchtower may argue that this is how “theocracy” functions. That might excuse the decision making process, but it doesn’t explain the complete lack of explanation for decisions made. The attitude of Watchtower toward ordinary members dispalys contempt.

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My thoughts over "this Generation" as a Jew would understand it

by Aleph in

i saw the video over the word "generation" and how you david s explained it.one thing for sure, is david doesn't understands at all how hebrews sees and understands things.let me explain...middle asians from antiquities, and hebrews saw things, in a complete different way than europeans are perceiving times and events!we, as modern europeans, we see the future in front of us, past in our back, right ?....

for the jews it s the contrary.how come ?well, for a jew they think past is in front of them because they can see it.future is in their back, as they can't see it.same thing for a generation.generation are seen from the perspective of the people who lived but died until a certain point, not the contrary as europeans sees the generation from a date of birth.

now really you can have a complete understanding of this when the bible says :" the date of death worth more than the date of birth"....again, you can judge not from how a person was born, but from what he had done in his life, same will apply for a generation.also as the wt stated well that the things described by the "sign" of the parousia were chronological, and happening in a certain order, the verse that talks about the genea is located not directly in reference of the parousia, but in the text referring to the great tribulation.

slimboyfat

Well I was at a discussion last night hosted by Muslim refugees at the Nurture Society, but I didn’t think to bring up this topic. We had an interesting discussion about religion as a force for good and bringing people together. And they gave us a Turkish meal, which was excellent. These Muslims are mainly Gulenists, from what I gather, so they are fairly liberal in outlook and in particular are very pro education.

I don’t know where the Christadelphian I was talking to got the idea of 120 years in connection with Muslims. Muslims are a very diverse community, of course, it’s possible some segment of Islam ascribes some importance to the number 120. The connection to a generation seems more tenuous. The only thing I can find online is reference to a word qarn which can mean an age or 120 years.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/669204?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

79

JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 in

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ja2 replies4 retweets12 likes.

reply.

slimboyfat

There was a period in the 1930s when Rutherford tought that the Holy Spirit was no longer active in the world and Jehovah used angels to accomplish his wishes instead. Interestingly this resembles the Christadelphian teaching on the Holy Spirit because they traditionally hold that the Holy Spirit is no longer active on earth since the death of the apostles, except through the pages of the inspired scriptures.

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Flip-flop-flip contradictions. Any other religions you know of guilty of these?

by FatFreek 2005 in

jehovah's witnesses are loaded with them, from resurrection of the sodomites, the superior authorities, transplants of human organs, oral sex between married couples, etc etc.. i've been trying to think of other christian religions with contradictions, especially flip-flop flip contradictions with a return to the original doctrine.. please help me out here..

slimboyfat

Mormons:

plural marriage/no plural marriage

no black priests/black priests

baptise Holocaust victims/don’t baptise Holocaust victims

no ecumenism/ecumenism

don’t accept children of gay couples/accept children

book of Abraham provenance and meaning

missionaries not allowed smart phones/now allowed smart phones

sunday meeting times reduced

age and gender adjustments on missionary assignments

Probably a lot more, these are just a few I am aware of.

Edit: sorry those are just changes, not flip flops. I should have read more carefully!

40

The Watchtower Tract Society doesn't print Bibles?

by Nathan Natas in

after reading a few comments here, i thought it was time for me to get a copy of "the silver sword" for my own occasional research and occult practices.

so i thought i would see if jw.org would offer a way that i could purchase a printed copy (not digital) of the new world translation.

as i browsed, it occurred to me that i might also like to have a copy of the... what was it?

slimboyfat

careful, was this a few years ago? I wonder if this experience could be repeated these days. Because I remember when carts first started they were told to have Bibles and other literature on hand. Since then they have downscaled their literature offer considerably, even to the point that the cart posters are now designed to “start a conversation” rather than feature an actual item of literature. My guess is that many JWs on carts, if asked for a copy of the Bible, would first want to know why you want one, probably don’t have spare copies on hand, and might want to arrange a visit.

79

JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 in

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ja2 replies4 retweets12 likes.

reply.

slimboyfat

Is this for real? Removing mention of “spirit directed”? Bizarre. I can’t think of any practical or theological motive for it.

Interesting to me that Christadelphians baptise people in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

The person conducting the baptism stands over the person being baptised and says: “you (include name) have given a good confession of your faith in Jesus Christ, therefore I hereby baptise you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost”, followed by baptism. Quite simple.