for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
You say:
He uses language familiar to Jewish readers like 'archangel' but does not suggest the Logos is a secondary god, in fact he argues against that.
Philo says:
For nothing mortal can be made in the likeness of the most high One and Father of the universe but (only) in that of the second God (deuteron theon) who is his Logos. Questionis in Genesim 2:62, quoted in Two Gods in Heaven (2020) by Peter Schäfer.
for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
The scholars who offer interpretations that support JW readings are not themselves JWs, they have a variety of backgrounds and views, including liberal Christians, atheists, agnostics, Jews, and others. Whereas scholars who read the Trinity into the Bible are themselves invariably Trinitarian believers.
There was an interesting exchange the Expository Times where the Trinitarian scholar Gerald O’Collins complained that Paul Holloway had not paid sufficient attention to Christian tradition and dogma when he wrote his commentary on Philippians which concludes that Paul believed Jesus is an angel. Holloway’s response to O’Collins is summarised in the abstract as follows:
Gerald O’Collins’s insistence that scholars read Paul’s encomium to Christ in Phil 2:6-11 as anticipating later Christian orthodoxy confuses theological apologetics for historical interpretation. His claim that Paul anticipates Nicene Christology is anachronistic, tendentious, and methodologically confused. Phil 2:6-11 expresses a Jewish angel Christology, not a teleological foreshadowing of Nicene orthodoxy. A close reading of O’Collins’s essay is instructive at a number of levels.
In a footnote Holloway makes the following comment on the topic of objectivity:
Conservative apologists often introduce a false equivalency here, claiming that critical historians are no less biased than they themselves are. But there is a vast difference between being a finite human being with a limited perspective and unconscious biases and an ideologue with an agenda that cannot be challenged and to which all evidence must bow. Objectivity, like other large and important values such as justice and love, is a stubbornly elusive goal, but it matters if one tries.
for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
How does it come about that when experts examine the biblical texts without any prior faith commitment they tend to draw conclusions similar to JWs about the meaning of key passages such as John 1 and Phil 2? Whereas scholars who claim to find the Trinity in the Bible are invariably those with a prior commitment to the dogma. Doesn’t this tend to indicate that an objective reading of the texts contradicts the Trinity?
in a book which attempts to refute jw christology, the trinitarian scholar greg lanier begins his argument with the surprising admission that a majority of evangelical christians agree with jws that jesus is god’s first creation.
a 2018 survey by ligonier ministries and lifeway research found that nearly 95 percent of self-described evangelical christians affirm the trinity, but simultaneously, about 80 percent believe that jesus christ is the "first and greatest being created by god.
" the shocking thing is that these respondents do not appear to realize the stark contradiction in these two positions.. greg lanier, is jesus truly god?
In a book which attempts to refute JW Christology, the Trinitarian scholar Greg Lanier begins his argument with the surprising admission that a majority of Evangelical Christians agree with JWs that Jesus is God’s first creation.
A 2018 survey by Ligonier Ministries and LifeWay Research found that nearly 95 percent of self-described evangelical Christians affirm the Trinity, but simultaneously, about 80 percent believe that Jesus Christ is the "first and greatest being created by God." The shocking thing is that these respondents do not appear to realize the stark contradiction in these two positions.
Greg Lanier, Is Jesus Truly God? How the Bible Teaches the Divinity of Christ (2020), page 14.
While it might at first appear surprising that 80% of Evangelicals agree with JWs that Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God, this finding is in line with other surveys of the beliefs of ordinary Christians.
For example, the book Ordinary Christology: Who Do You Say I Am? Answers from the pews (2012) by Ann Christie, conducted a qualitative analysis of Christian believers who made statements such as:
Bruce
'I do see it as, sort of, God being at the top and Jesus being at the right hand-side or just below, however you want to describe it.'
'I would see [Jesus] as something slightly less than God.' (page 56)
Adding:
Many talk about Jesus as God's creation, using phrases such as, 'God produced Jesus', 'God created Jesus', 'Jesus was God's creation'.
Which raises the question why, despite centuries of Christian dogma denying that Jesus was created, do so many ordinary Christians agree with JWs that Jesus was created by God? Although JWs have been preaching their message with unprecedented vigour for over a century, it would be hasty to conclude this is the reason most ordinary Christians agree with JWs on this topic. A simpler explanation lies in the fact that ordinary Christians have drawn the reasonable inference from the plain language of scripture on the subject. A son is ordinarily younger and subordinate to his father; Jesus sits at the right hand of God; and he is described as the “firstborn of all creation”. Despite the efforts of Trinitarian dogmaticians over many centuries, ordinary Christians draw the obvious conclusion from these biblical images and phrases.
for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.
annual meeting live link.
the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.
They had 12 in the past - in the classic Proclaimers group GB portrait in 1991 .
They seem to aim for roughly twelve but are not fixated on the number. I think the most has been 17 and the fewest 7 - off the top of my head.
i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.
annual meeting live link.
the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.
Jackson’s talk was the most entertaining. He made a good few jokes about elderly anointed. He’s a good speaker, but at the end of the day the new insistence that anointed don’t need to be elderly is a climbdown. In the long run people will remember the climbdown rather than the amiable delivery and the jokes.
Only joined Bethel in 2020? I wonder what he was he doing before that.
I wonder if it grates on all the helpers who’ve been there for decades. And what about poor old thingamy from Edinburgh – overlooked again. (I forget his name)
Yes, I couldn’t find photo or video with Jacob Rumph. He was appointed a helper one year ago, a quick ascent.
Did the announcement contain the customary statement “these are anointed brothers”? I missed it.
What happened to the idea that “helpers” were non anointed Nethinim anyway? Has that been abandoned.
Can’t find anything with Jacob Rumph, only appointed a helper one year ago, a quick ascent.
Jody Jedele here, looks quite young, possibly under 50?
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtGilead/pub-jwb-107_5_VIDEO
Did the announcement contain the customary statement “these are anointed brothers”? I missed it.
