It reminds me of William Barclay, if I remember right, who argued that theos is qualitative in John 1.1c but was absolutely furious that JWs quoted him on it. He didn’t mind being a heretic himself (he was branded a heretic for believing universalism) but being quoted by heretics to support their heresy was beyond the pale. 😆
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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12
Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian
by slimboyfat inphilip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.
it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.
he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.
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slimboyfat
There could also be a god who is all-powerful and unconstrained by morals when it comes to the sandbox universe it created for the purposes of research.
That’s the other logical possibility and he gives his reasons for rejecting that option in the interview. JWs also get a mention at one point. (Only to say he doesn’t find their picture of paradise credible.)
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Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian
by slimboyfat inphilip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.
it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.
he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.
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slimboyfat
Philip Goff, professor of philosophy at Durham University, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a Christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety. It’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a Christian.
He says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both. On the one hand, he finds the fine tuning argument a compelling reason to believe in God, and on the other hand he finds the presence of evil and suffering a compelling reason to reject an all powerful God. The solution he has landed on is that there is likely a God who is not all powerful but has to work within constraints, resulting in suffering and evil. He rejects traditional Christian doctrines such as the virgin birth and substitutionary atonement, but finds the story of Christianity compelling and “likely true”.
I bought his book Why? The Purpose of the Universe last year when he was still an atheist or agnostic. Basically that book argued that the evidence for some kind of design or fine tuning of the universe is becoming so strong now that it is getting difficult to maintain the position that the universe has no purpose while paying attention to the scientific evidence. He was exploring whether it is possible for the universe to have a design and a purpose without a God. Now he has concluded the most reasonable explanation is that the apparent purposiveness of the universe indicates there is a God.
In other news, I see Dawkins is on a farewell tour and struggling to fill seats at some venues. From the heady days of New Atheism in the early 2000s, is a purely materialist view of reality beginning to lose plausibility and mass appeal?
https://aeon.co/essays/i-now-think-a-heretical-form-of-christianity-might-be-true
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Good to know he doesn’t endorse the owner of X, that’s the kind of moral leadership we need. 👍
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Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting
by Listener inwally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.
he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.
i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.
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slimboyfat
It’s a confusing mess. I don’t think JWs know if they are coming or going with the DFing rules now.
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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slimboyfat
The third point is true, and I don’t know that WT ever stated the first two. Individual JWs may have said those first two points, but people can say all sorts of stuff.
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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slimboyfat
I wonder how you explain away this passage from Justin Martyr. The obvious conclusion is that Justin’s views are incompatible with the later Trinity doctrine, and compatible with JW view that Jesus is an angel and was created by God, but I guess you have a way of neutralising the straightforward meaning here?
Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught. First Apology 6
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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slimboyfat
The difference between Jesus and the mythical examples is that Jesus was a historical person. I don’t know what’s so enigmatic about pointing out the mainstream view. It’s a mainstream view that Jesus is distinct from and subordinate to God in Paul’s theology. The specific view of Jesus as an angel in Paul was not as common when Sanders wrote that article as it is now. It has been gaining ground in the work of scholars such as Charles Gieschen (on Gal 4.14), Susan Garrett (Jesus is “no ordinary angel” in the NT generally), Bart Ehrman, John Ashton and Charles Talbert (both support Martin Werner’s angel Christology), Paul Holloway and Emily Wasserman (both see Jesus as an angel in Phil 2).
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How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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slimboyfat
The exaltation of Christ in Philippians 2:9-11 is not an indication that He was elevated from a lower status to a higher one in the divine hierarchy.
I think in any reasonable reading of Philippians 2.9-11 Jesus is elevated to superior position. I know that’s problematic for Trinitarian dogma but Paul didn’t know anything about the Trinity and it shows.
6 who, though he existed in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
assuming human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a human,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.9 Therefore God exalted him even more highly
and gave him the name
that is above every other name,
10 so that at the name given to Jesus
every knee should bend,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. -
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Ten reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses have the true religion (plus a bonus one)
by slimboyfat inthinking back when i was a true believer these are probably the top ten reasons why i believed jws are the true religion.
1. they show love among themselves by not going to war.
not killing your fellow believers in any circumstances, including war, would seem to be a very basic requirement for true christianity.
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slimboyfat
Yes, I read The Blind Watchmaker in 1999 on the banks of the river Ness and it convinced me evolution is likely true. The book even mentions JWs a couple of times and their misunderstanding or misrepresentation of evolution. I still think evolution is probably true but it’s not as slam dunk as I thought it was then. If evolution is true then it doesn’t necessarily point to a purely materialist reality in any case (see Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel) and might actually be a good argument in favour of God’s existence. (See the argument from evolution by Alvin Plantinga)