slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  2908

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  Oh for crying out loud how long is this going to drag on? 🙄
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  28

  Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

  the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

  at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

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  slimboyfat

  Yes, Earnest, and as well as burning and suppressing earlier works that didn’t align with later Nicene theology, another tactic was to rewrite earlier works to make them appear more orthodox Trinitarian. Rufinus, for example, rewrote works by Origen to temper his subordinationist theology to an extent that in many instances it is difficult to know where later orthodox statements have been interpolated in Origen’s work, or where indeed statements or passages inconvenient for later Nicene theology have been removed altogether.
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  28

  Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

  the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

  at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

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  slimboyfat

  
  

  Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicaea. The burning of Arian books is illustrated above. Drawing on vellum. From MS CLXV, Biblioteca Capitolare, Vercelli, a compendium of canon law produced in northern Italy ca. 825.

  
  
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  slimboyfat

  What do you mean Rivergang? aqwsed is on the verge of acknowledging that the Trinity is wrong and Jesus was created. He’ll come round any day now can’t you see that?
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  2908

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  Thanks, those are some wild headlines indeed.
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  171

  Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

  this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

  the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

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  slimboyfat

  there may be isolated attempts—ancient and modern—to interpret John 1:1 as implying that the Word had a beginning as the "first creation,"

  Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for. Do you know where to find them?
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  2908

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  It might be clear to you what the Guardian gets wrong but it’s not clear to me that we are thinking primarily about the same things. They get some gender stuff wrong and I would be inclined to agree on that to some extent. But to me the worst thing about the Guardian has been its complicity in bringing down Jeremy Corbyn with false anti semitism allegations and thereby denying us any possibility of a genuine attempt at social democracy and ethical foreign policy in the UK. I also think they’ve been too soft in calling out the ongoing genocide. Those are the biggest problems with the Guardian as far as I’m concerned and I suspect they might not be your list. I am already aware of good critiques from a left perspective and it might be obvious to you where to find critiques from another angle but it’s not obvious to me.
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  51

  2024 year Highlights: JWs hit 9 million Publishers

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower put out some highlights for the 2024 service year:.

  average publishers: 8,828,124. peak publishers: 9,043,460. a 43.2 percent increase in "those who returned to jehovah", meaning 65,816 were reinstated.

  baptized: 296,267. memorial attendance: 21,119,442. missing stat: number of partakers .. womp womp.

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  slimboyfat

  Why should anyone believe their membership numbers?

  Because dozens of censuses across the globe have shown that their membership figures consistently understate the size of their community as demonstrated in the article cited above?
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  171

  Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

  this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

  the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

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  slimboyfat

  aqwsed I know that you don’t think Jesus is God’s first creation. My question was whether anyone knows which ancient or modern scholars have taken “beginning” as a description of the origin of the Word in John 1.1 in a way that indicates Jesus is God’s first creation. I am sure I read it somewhere but I can’t remember where.

  On the point that “heaven and earth” is a miasm indicating totality, indeed, and that totality, in context is the whole of physical creation. Genesis 1 is an account of the physical creation, it doesn’t discuss or deal with the creation of the heavenly realm, angels, cherubs, seraphs, and the firstborn of all creation.
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  2908

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  What are the questionable Grauniad articles? Have you got a link?