by Longlivetherenegades 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Those who say they are Christians or follow Christianity needs
1. Father
2. Jesus
3. Holy spirit
Your accepting trinity does not make you have more of the three itemized than the fellow who don't accept the trinity belief and vice versa. If otherwise give your concrete explanation.
It is a shame after thousands of years of arguing trinity that refuses to die is still being a controversial discussion. There is more in being a Christian than trinity.
Heretics are the only ones who reject the triune nature of God. The reason JW's have such a hard time with it is because they deny the tri-partite nature of man. Despite the fact that in the bible "spirit" and "soul" of man is referred to using pronouns, which shows personhood - such as he, her, them, they... JW's HERETICALLY claim that they are inanimate like electricity, or an attitude.
JW's believe like materialists do when it suits them.
Jesus was a man just like anyone else here with a body, soul, and spirit. That is why he is FULLY MAN. Also, his Spirit shares the indivisable essence of God, the SPIRIT who begot him, which makes him FULLY GOD. It's pretty easy to figure out if you just use the definitions that the Bible supplys and don't try to make up your own.
This is why all of the following words are appropriate in addressing Jesus:
Lord
Jesus
God
The Firsborn (most prominent) of Creation
The Alpha & Omega
The First and the Last
The Author and Finisher of our Faith
The Bread of Life
Eternal Father
There are a lot more ..... here
@longlive: they are not 3 separate/itemized terms, that’s the difference between Christians and non-Christians.
There are only 2 main religious groups that reject trinitarianism and they are both followers of 19th century false prophets William Miller (which eventually became Bible Students, WTBTS and Adventists) and Joseph Smith (various sorts of Mormonism). They actually influenced each other and were in a bit of a tussle for prophecy and followers as they were both from the same region (Upstate New York), both seem to have copied some things from the other.
Mormons are thus close cousins to the JW belief system, and Mormonism is generally rejected as a Christian faith.
The general understanding was that Jesus was the manifestation or seeable version of God in the Old Testament. He was either the word of the Lord or the angel of the Lord, etc., etc..
People have been arguing over the details of this for the last 2000 years and I really don’t think there’s much point or anything I can add to this to discussion so I really don’t bother anymore.
The part that I’ve always found quite frightening with the watchtower is there’s no concept or understanding of why people believe what they believe.
To all Christaians out there : why is it necessary to believe or reject the Trinity (depending on which camp you reside) in order to gain salvation? Either Jesus is God (fully) or he is a representative, or "son" ... or perhaps a mode. Whatever he is, as a Christian, God (in whatever nature he resides) has made provision through Jesus, right? Simply have sincere faith, repent, accept him (whatever he was), and that he rose on the third day.
Can't we all just get along?
@MeanMrMustard: because what you state is the view of Jesus according to Mormons (or Islam). So Christianity is a form of Judaism where the Messiah has returned (if you want to take a true historic viewpoint).
You cannot agree to reject the divinity of Christ as elaborated in the Nicene Creed and still be a Christian, it’s kind of the definition of being a Christian, every denomination has held this since the establishment of Christianity. The trinity is just the mechanics of how God came to Earth and died for our sins in a human body, because nobody can ‘see’ God in completeness and live, therefore there must be a part of God that came down (the Son) and a connecting force (the Holy Spirit). It’s more of an explanation, but you cannot say they are separate, that would be considered heresy. You can call your belief something else, but the majority of Christians would agree you are not a Christian if you reject that.
Judaism had similar expectations according to Rabbi Johanan bar Nappaha and Rabbi Abba Bar Kahana (3rd century AD) the Jews were still expecting God-in-the-flesh. The Chabad believes Rabbi Mendel Schneerson to be similarly the Messiah, a God-on-earth. I think more modern Judaism may reject that notion, but that may be to distinguish it from the idea of Jesus.
Note that even the Quran teaches that Jesus was the Messiah and will return during their interpretation of Armageddon, however like Mormons and Millerites do not teach that he is (a) God.
why is it necessary to believe or reject the Trinity
Well for one thing, without divinity, Jesus would have been a liar when he said that he would resurrect himself from the dead. I face plenty of liars in my line of work; don't need another one in my life.
In John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18)
A man who was known even by his enemies as a worker of miracles, said that he woud die as a substitute (scape goat) for the sins of the world. Then, after three days in a tomb, he would resurrect himself from the dead. Only God could do such a thing.
Then, he did it. This is how Christianity got started. And because of this utterly stupendous event, it then spread like wildfire, eventually conquoring the greatest empire the world had ever known, without ever lifting a single weapon.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory". - 1 Tim. 3: 16 KJV
If Jesus isn't "God manifest in the flesh" he could not have resurrected himself from the dead and the whole thing is a hoax, and Jesus is a liar and the worst of the worst charlatans.
unending and fruitless argument on TrinitySign me up, where can I get me some of that? 😛
Sea Breeze
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory". - 1 Tim. 3: 16 KJV
If Jesus isn't "God manifest in the flesh" he could not have resurrected himself from the dead and the whole thing is a hoax, and Jesus is a liar and the worst of the worst charlatans.
A child can manifest qualities/ traits of their parents but they remain seperate entities. A child cannot be their own parent. This scripture doesnt prove that jesus is automatically God.
Just for the record, I dont believe any of it, I just wanted to point out the weakness of your argument.
A child cannot be their own parent.
Apparently he can in this case. My chart above perfectly expalins it.
That's why he is called "only begotten". It was a one-time deal where The Son of God was permanently fused to the body and soul of the son of a beautiful little peasant girl in a far-flung remote province of the Roman empire.
