Posts by Etude

11

The good, the bad and the ugly.

by Etude in

i had posted some comments on another thread about good and bad witnesses in response to a request, but i think i waited too long and the thread died before anyone read post.

i'd like to start a new thread just to share some of my experiences, particularly at bethel.

here's the previous post: .

Etude

I had posted some comments on another thread about good and bad Witnesses in response to a request, but I think I waited too long and the thread died before anyone read post. I'd like to start a new thread just to share some of my experiences, particularly at Bethel. Here's the previous post:

I did time in Bethel from 2/74 for about 2 and a half years. I remember the "New Boy" talk, which was delivered by Knorr. I remember his welcoming comments about how this was our home. But not a few sentences later, he told us that we couldn't as much as hang a picture on a wall of our room without permission from the Home Overseer. I remember him emphasizing, not so much that we maintain our promise to serve for 4 years, but that he wished that we make Bethel our life time goal. He pointed out as examples several brothers that had done that, among them, his right-hand boy, Fred Franz. It didn't take me long to realize that a lot of the ways things were done at Bethel were directly influenced by him (Knorr). For example, it's my impression that Knorr had a vision of what a Bethelite's appearance should be. I was "strongly encouraged" to shave my mustache off, even though it was basically left up to one as a matter of conscience (as if it was really a choice). I really don't know what the reason was. I just know that if you didn't, you were then branded a B.A. (bad attitude) and were not given "privileges". That view might have been associated with the "clean image" that Knorr had in mind or perhaps with the fact that he felt that others in the "world" looked like that (had mustaches), especially in Brooklyn Heights.

I stayed there long enough to witness the repeal of the "four-year sentence" and was able to leave after 2 and a-half years without reproach. But not before I had the "education" of a lifetime. I was rather sheltered and naive and because of my time at Bethel, I had a very fast and hard awakening. [] The majority of time I spent at Bethel was so traumatic for me that it has taken me years just to be able to talk about it. "Talk" is probably not the right term since I have never talked to anyone about my stay there. I have recently written an account of my entire experiences as a JW and would like to include a paragraph that discusses some issues found in this thread. Sorry for being so verbose:

At Bethel, the "Brothers" were very conscious of our looks to the point that it was discouraged for us to wear blue jeans during our personal time on the street, mostly because the homosexuals in the area seemed to wear them too. On one occasion, I remember being in my room at the as yet not remodeled roach-infested Towers Hotel. There were no direct phones since the Watchtower Society had not yet purchased the hotel and was only renting several floors while the deal was being completed. There were, however, hall phones that connected to the main hotel switchboard. If I got a call from my family, at 124 Columbia Heights (there was no way to call the hotel directly for a connection to me), the switchboard at Bethel would call the Towers Hotels main switchboard. The hotel attendant in turn would ring the hall phone on my floor. Someone would pick it up and knock on my room door. I would go to the hall phone were I would be informed that I had a call at the front desk at 124 Columbia Heights. I then would have to get dressed and run a bit more than 2 long New York City blocks so that I could get my call. On one of those occasions, I happened to meet brother Knorr who was also headed for the front door to enter the main lobby. My clothes and hair were in disarray since I arrived running on that cool breezy morning, after being in bed, having finished the night shift at the factory. What impressed me was his look of disdain and disapproval. I think he almost said something to me. If he had, I would have fired right back. All I could think of was about the sacrifice I was making being there at Bethel, not for him, but for Jehovah, and the hard work and inconvenience I was going through, and the roaches and bed bugs I had to endure at the Towers Hotel. I think I would have definitely pointed that out to him as something that would out-weigh his reason for disapproval. By the time I got to the phone, whoever called had gotten tired of waiting and hung up.

Etude.

44

Who still goes to meetings?

by christopherceo in

just a curious question to see what types of stories i get.

let's hear how you do it.

Etude

I agree with you, "blacksheep" and with you, "RAYZORBLADE". I haven't attended a meeting since about 1981. I didn't think I could stomach it. However, especially since I joined this newsgroup, I have this morbid curiosity to be there and actually listen to something that would amaze me. More than that, I want some ammunition for the day that I confront some of my family who are still Witnesses and discuss issues. The reason is, they think that when you leave the Organization, it's as if you forget everything that you've ever learned and have no credentials to discuss anything with understanding. I want to have some recent topics to argue with them. Then again, except for scandals, I can't think of anything new that they could possibly come up with. It's the same garbage, different day. Maybe it's how they say it that makes me curious. After all, there are those new "understandings".

I also think about how boring it would be to read through and hear some of the issues in the infantile way it's written and delivered. In all my years hearing lectures (since 1970), there were very few lecturing individuals I encounteed who could manage insight into a subject. I probably could have but didn't have the avocados to deviate from the hour-sermon outline and really speak my mind. While at the mini-Gilead school for new boys at Bethel, someone told me that the Society writes their literature for an audience with an 8th grade level education. Frankly, I think it's somewhere below that. They say the same thing about military documentation, but I find that much more interesting than the Watchtower. I'm not saying that I'm going. I'm just considering it. I can understand other's "no way in hell would I go back" position. Some wounds are hard to heal. I guess mine are, but I still have the scars and that makes me reluctant.

Etude.

30

Tell about the good JWs

by Skeptic in

jw
friends

most of the jws i met were sincere people.

not perfect, i have my horror stories too, but most were decent people.

i am not discounting the horrible things i hear on this forum.

Etude

Jerry:

In order to save me some time, Im reprinting part of message that I posted on another thread. As part of the message, I cited an excerpt from my story, which is taking me some time to put down on paper. Its hard to dredge up all those bad memories. Here it is:

I did time in Bethel from 2/74 for about 2 and a half years. I remember the "New Boy" talk, which was delivered by Knorr. I remember his welcoming comments about how this was our home. But not a few sentences later, he told us that we couldn't as much as hang a picture on a wall of our room without permission from the Home Overseer. I remember him emphasizing, not so much that we maintain our promise to serve for 4 years, but that he wished that we make Bethel our life time goal. He pointed out as examples several brothers that had done that, among them, his right-hand boy, Fred Franz. It didn't take me long to realize that a lot of the ways things were done at Bethel were directly influenced by him (Knorr). For example, it's my impression that Knorr had a vision of what a Bethelite's appearance should be. I was "strongly encouraged" to shave my mustache off, even though it was basically left up to one as a matter of conscience (as if it was really a choice). I really don't know what the reason was. I just know that if you didn't, you were then branded a B.A. (bad attitude) and were not given "privileges". That view might have been associated with the "clean image" that Knorr had in mind or perhaps with the fact that he felt that others in the "world" looked like that (had mustaches), especially in Brooklyn Heights.

I stayed there long enough to witness the repeal of the "four-year sentence" and was able to leave after 2 and a-half years without reproach. But not before I had the "education" of a lifetime. I was rather sheltered and naive and because of my time at Bethel, I had a very fast and hard awakening. [] The majority of time I spent at Bethel was so traumatic for me that it has taken me years just to be able to talk about it. "Talk" is probably not the right term since I have never talked to anyone about my stay there. I have recently written an account of my entire experiences as a JW and would like to include a paragraph that discusses some issues found in this thread. Sorry for being so verbose:

At Bethel, the "Brothers" were very conscious of our looks to the point that it was discouraged for us to wear blue jeans during our personal time on the street, mostly because the homosexuals in the area seemed to wear them too. On one occasion, I remember being in my room at the as yet not remodeled roach-infested Towers Hotel. There were no direct phones since the Watchtower Society had not yet purchased the hotel and was only renting several floors while the deal was being completed. There were, however, hall phones that connected to the main hotel switchboard. If I got a call from my family, at 124 Columbia Heights (there was no way to call the hotel directly for a connection to me), the switchboard at Bethel would call the Towers Hotels main switchboard. The hotel attendant in turn would ring the hall phone on my floor. Someone would pick it up and knock on my room door. I would go to the hall phone were I would be informed that I had a call at the front desk at 124 Columbia Heights. I then would have to get dressed and run a bit more than 2 long New York City blocks so that I could get my call. On one of those occasions, I happened to meet brother Knorr who was also headed for the front door to enter the main lobby. My clothes and hair were in disarray since I arrived running on that cool breezy morning, after being in bed, having finished the night shift at the factory. What impressed me was his look of disdain and disapproval. I think he almost said something to me. If he had, I would have fired right back. All I could think of was about the sacrifice I was making being there at Bethel, not for him, but for Jehovah, and the hard work and inconvenience I was going through, and the roaches and bed bugs I had to endure at the Towers Hotel. I think I would have definitely pointed that out to him as something that would out-weigh his reason for disapproval. By the time I got to the phone, whoever called had gotten tired of waiting and hung up.

Etude.

30

Tell about the good JWs

by Skeptic in

jw
friends

most of the jws i met were sincere people.

not perfect, i have my horror stories too, but most were decent people.

i am not discounting the horrible things i hear on this forum.

Etude

I realized long ago, while I was still in the Organization, that people are people. It doesnt matter what group or category they find themselves in, they will develop the natural course of human behavior some will be bad and some will be good. My realization came from finding very little difference when comparing the things that happened inside the Organization and the world. JWs got divorced just like the people world; they stole and committed other crimes just like people in the world; they committed sexual misconduct just like the people in the world; and there were plenty of assholes, just like in the world. There were many good people too who performed great acts of kindness or were just simply kind hearted and good friends.

In reality, the JW microcosm is a diminutive copy of the real world. Its true that because of their beliefs some of the things that happen seem to be emphasized and augmented. The consequences in the world are many times not as dramatic or emotionally devastating. I was also in Bethel in Brooklyn, NY, and because of the concentrated environment there, I happened to meet bigger assholes and nicer people than when I was in the congregation. My realization was cemented when I learned that the wife of a district overseer (they were living at Bethel at the time) had committed adultery with another Bethelite in the 107 building. I remember thinking of all the unhappiness that the individuals must have been going through in order to get to that point. Of course, it simply could have been that they were just plain horny.

It didnt make a difference who they were and where they came from in order for them to behave badly or to the contrary. The assholes I met ranged from my first roommate right up to Nathan Knorr. Some of the nicer people I met made a lasting impression on me. I considered them part of my family, even though I can no longer associate with them (or even my fleshly family). I will always treasure having known them.

Etude.

13

Bethel orientation

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

.

i was reading some recent postings that talked about the orientation meeting at bethel, and how the negative things were not to be reported back at the congregations.. now that we are free from it all, how about sharing some of these tales?

Etude

I did time in Bethel from 2/74 for about 2 and a half years. I remember the "New Boy" talk, which was delivered by Knorr. I remember his welcoming comments about how this was our home. But not a few sentences later, he told us that we couldn't as much as hang a picture on a wall of our room without permission from the Home Overseer. I remember him emphasizing, not so much that we maintain our promise to serve for 4 years, but that he wished that we make Bethel our life time goal. He pointed out as examples several brothers that had done that, among them, his right-hand boy, Fred Franz. It didn't take me long to realize that a lot of the ways things were done at Bethel were directly influenced by him. For example, it's my impression that Knorr had a vision of what a Bethelite's appearance should be. I was "strongly encouraged" to shave my mustache off, even though it was basically left up to one as a matter of conscience. I really don't know what the reason was. I just know that if you didn't, you were then branded a B.A. and were not given "priviledges". That view might have been associated with the "clean image" that Knorr had in mind or perhaps with the fact that he felt that others in the "world" looked like that (had mustaches), especially in Brooklyn Heights.

I stayed there long enough to witness the repeal of the "four-year sentence" and was able to leave after 2 and a-half years without reproach. But not before I had the "education" of a lifetime. I was rather sheltered and naive and because of my time at Bethel, I had a very fast and hard awakening. I knew at least 2 people that were dismissed due to the "homosexual" welcoming parties. These guys had arrived at Bethel in my "group"! I can imagine that there was also a serious "blood letting"; people spilling their guts about other people. I gathered it was like the McCarthy Era. The majority of time I spent at Bethel was so traumatic for me, it has taken me years just to be able to talk about it. "Talk" is probably not the right term since I have never talked to anyone about my stay there. I have recently written an account of my entire experiences as a JW and would like to include a paragraph that discusses some issues found in this thread. Sorry for being so verbose:

At Bethel, the "Brothers" were very conscious of our looks to the point that it was discouraged for us to wear blue jeans during our personal time on the street, mostly because the homosexuals in the area seemed to wear them too. On one occasion, I remember being in my room at the as yet not remodeled roach-infested Towers Hotel. There were no direct phones since the Watchtower Society had not yet purchased the hotel and was only renting several floors while the deal was being completed. There were, however, hall phones that connected to the main hotel switchboard. If I got a call from my family, at 124 Columbia Heights (there was no way to call the hotel directly for a connection to me), the switchboard at Bethel would call the Towers Hotels main switchboard. The hotel attendant in turn would ring the hall phone on my floor. Someone would pick it up and knock on my room door. I would go to the hall phone were I would be informed that I had a call at the front desk at 124 Columbia Heights. I then would have to get dressed and run a bit more than 2 long New York City blocks so that I could get my call. On one of those occasions, I happened to meet brother Knorr who was also headed for the front door to enter the main lobby. My clothes and hair were in disarray since I arrived running on that cool breezy morning, after being in bed, having finished the night shift at the factory. What impressed me was his look of disdain and disapproval. I think he almost said something to me. If he had, I would have fired right back. All I could think of was about the sacrifice I was making being there at Bethel, not for him, but for Jehovah, and the hard work and inconvenience I was going through, and the roaches and bed bugs I had to endure at the Towers Hotel. I think I would have definitely pointed that out to him as something that would out-weigh his reason for disapproval. By the time I got to the phone, whoever called had gotten tired of waiting and hung up.

Etude.

31

All bookstudies at the KH???

by Intuit39 in

jw
friends

i know of a congregation on the east coast that is having all bookstudies meet at the kingdom hall!

that's right--no bookstudies in private homes, at least for now.... has anyone else heard of this?

and what could be the reason?

Etude

To answer the question, yes! My mother attends a congregation in Montecito, CA and about 3 to 4 months ago, they started having the Book Study in the K.H. Shes not sure why they changed it, but I imagine that somebody is afraid of liabilities. From what she tells me, I gather nobody likes it. I've also heard that they don't meet at private houses any more before going out to congregationally-arranged "field service". They meet at the K.H.

Now, Id like to relate a personal experience about this: I once attended a Book Study at a private house where it was obvious that the owners did not want to use their nice living room area to be trampled weekly by a group of people. They instead volunteered their basement that, although had sufficient room to accommodate a group, was next to a not-so-well-insulated bathroom. On one occasion, somebody had to go. The first clue to what was happening in there were some funny noises, which we tried to ignore. Next was a thunderous flush and then came the overpowering smell. It was hard to pay attention to anything after that. Needles to say, that was the last time the Book Study was held there.

Etude.

19

Two lies more from the Society

by ServetMiguel in

i suggest when the society quotes somebody, we should confirm that they are usin the quotation in its context because the society is a master in deceiving and taking out of context everything.

here you are another three lies more.

watchtower 15/5/1983 page 6.

Etude

ServetMiguel:

I would also like a copy of the letters responding to your research. Can you please send them to [email protected]. Thank you.

Etude.

75

1000 asked to leave Brooklyn Bethel!

by cyberguy in

jw
friends

1000 were asked to leave brooklyn bethel (actually, this includes the farm and patterson) "voluntarily!

" only 6 replied to the request in the last 3 weeks.

it looks like the "waters" of bethel are drying up, or rather, their revenues are drying up!

Etude

Worf:

To echo your sentiment, when I was at Bethel I asked an older brother how he had persisted for so long (some 20 or 30 years) in his service. I was altruistic, but realized that life at Bethel was hard and sometime along the line I would like to have a change of life, marry and have sex. I expected a really profound answer. What I got was a story of how he entered Bethel as a young man, had a brief courtship with a sister who was a pioneer but was not very interested in him in preference to the "pioneer" work (she probably didn't want to go to Bethel) and how he just went on until he had spend almost 30 years there. I was deflated. I found it so pathetic and realized that he became comfortable there and probably too afraid to start over in the outside world even before he got too old to find real employment. I imagine that this is the case with many people there. My brother-in-law left because my sister got pregnant. Some brother promised him that he would have a job ready for him. It never materialized and he and my sister ended up living with my parents for a while. While this was happening, I started going to college. It's unbelievable that people from other congregations tried to pressure me to not go. What ignoramuses!

Etude.

75

1000 asked to leave Brooklyn Bethel!

by cyberguy in

jw
friends

1000 were asked to leave brooklyn bethel (actually, this includes the farm and patterson) "voluntarily!

" only 6 replied to the request in the last 3 weeks.

it looks like the "waters" of bethel are drying up, or rather, their revenues are drying up!

Etude

When I joined Bethel back in 1974, I went in under the 4-year rule. After about 2 years they announced that you could leave after one year of service (meaning you wouldn't be ostracised when you went back to your home congregation). People were lining up to get out. That's why it surprises me that there were only a few takers. Maybe they're holding off to make arrangements for "life after Bethel". After all, there aren't many jobs trimming magazines and binding books out there in the world. There's always Motel 6.

Etude.

27

Disgusting JW Funeral story

by PopeOfEruke in

i heard of a funeral held for a sister last week in a kh.. her non-jw daughter-in-law write a poem for her, and wanted to read it at the service in the kingdom hall.

the d-i-l had studied many years ago but was never baptized.

however, because she was wearing slacks, she was refused to read it from the platform and had to read it from her seat in the audience.. how low can you go?

Etude

Bonovo. Your experience is interesting, sad and amusing. It runs the gamut. I signed up on the board partly to say that and to share my own experience. My dad was not JW but was sympathetic. He was not the greatest dad, but I nevertheless loved him. When he died in the East Coast, I was living in the West Cost and no longer interested in being a JW. My brother-in-law (an elder) arranged everything including the talk, given by someone whom I didn't know and who probably didn't know my father either. I can remember just sitting there at the funeral home, listening to these people and thinking how lame this was. All I heard were empty words about "hope" and "resurrection". They might have meant more if I hadn't heard them a hundred times before, the same way, under the same circumstances.

I was upset enough with my grief that I had decided not to speak at the service. Well, after the boring endless readings and canned phrases, I just couldn't sit there anymore. I decided to get up and say something. In spite of my anger at such an obvious attempts to preach to my fathers worldly friends, I kept my cool. I simply said that all the talk about resurrection was fine, but that it didnt concern me at that moment. I said that I did not want to be consoled with such talk, that I felt pain for having lost him; that I knew that the pain would ease in time, but nothing anyone could say would help to mitigate my grief at that moment. I mentioned that, although he was a strict disciplinarian, he sought the best for his family. I stated I that I owe a lot to him for contributing to making the person I am now. I went on speaking along those lines. I was very emotional and I dont recall all I said. I do remember how the faces changed as I went on, from detached looks to involvement and then to tears. It was the best part of the whole session and it made quite an impact. It also had the effect of contrasting my personal message to a stale, insipid and contrived presentation.

Etude.