I hear you loud and clear @NewChapter. For me, the guilt was about having to do something. I remember wondering on several occasions, if Christ's yoke was "easy", why it felt such a burden to have to go to field service, or to have to go to the damned meeting, or to have to choose between what they said and what my heart told me to do. Finally, it got to be a pain in the ass and I had to take medication for it. I got a prescription.
Posts by Etude
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51What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus infor me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.
they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.
as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.
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14
Jehovah's Witnesses do not get divorces
by Las Malvinas son Argentinas infamous last words.. this is what my mum told me when papa moved out.
when it did finally happen months later, it was because he had left jehovah.
i hated him for many years and refused to speak to him.
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Etude
@LMSA: Congratulations on your new progeny! I think I understand your situation with your father. Just the other day, I wrote to my sister telling her how all the years we've lost (regardless of blame or even due to the fact that we made up after she left the WTS) can never be recovered. I don't know what it would take to make up for it. But whatever it is, the clock resets. Depending on the individuals, a new relationship has to start, one that may never be what either person would have expected or hoped for. That's gotta be the worst part about being a Witless. I'm sure there are exceptions if the familial ties were strong and not severely damaged.
I think that one of you showing a significant gesture towards the other would go a long way. You started by contacting him and telling him about his grand-daughter. It appears he was touched. Spending sufficient time together can foster that new relationship. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that life and circumstances do not always afford us. It takes a great deal of effort to make that happen. But by all means, keep that new door open.
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51
What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus infor me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.
they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.
as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.
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Etude
The worst thing for me was the slow and gradual deception I came to realize. I think that perhaps I would have put up with all the ridicule, the going out to "service", even some guilt (of which I already had plenty) and listening to stupid comments from the platform every week for the sake of being right and on the true path. That's why it hurt so much more to learn I was so deeply decieved. Given what I've come to learn about myself, it was only a matter of time. But I regret that I wasted so many years of my life without pursuing my education, my creativity, my freedom and giving up lots of nooky. I also lost my family. What a waste of time!
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spirituality and religion - what are the differences?
by soft+gentle intrying to understand the differences.
started this topic on the xjwsforchrist forum as well and would like to ask jwn posters the same question.
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Etude
I'm pretty sure, after reading several dictionary definitions, that the term "spirituality" has a fundamental undercurrent of being "spritiural" in the sense of having a feeling or idea of "more" and of a relation of one's consciousness with a greater aim or purpose and of a connection with other things in the universe, a oneness with the cosmos.
Unlike many other comments I've seen here and elsewhere, sprituality is real and pervasive in almost any culture. From the perspective of evolution, it is one of the things that creates contention while evolutionists try to explain something for which we apparently have no need for. The work of many scientists point to a special place in our brain (the "G" spot) that is significantly associated with "spirituality".
But, spirituality has nothing to do with religion because one can be spiritual and not be afilliated with any particular organization or institutionalized rites. Someone "communing" with nature in a deep and silent forrest or overlooking a vast ocean would experience the kind of spirituality that brings a kind of awe and even inspiration. God need not be present.
Religion, on the other hand, can usurp spirituality and often manipulates our spiritual tendencies for its own benefit. While religion sees spirituality as its venue, the opposite is not true. There are religious people with very little spirituality (they just need a label to walk around in life) and there are very spiritual people without any religion.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/192437/1/can-spirituality-replace-religion
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82
Is the Governing Body EVIL or IGNORANT?
by cedars insome of you will have noticed that i've been paying a lot of attention to the governing body recently.
this is because most jehovah's witnesses venerate them collectively (even if they can't name them individually), and i feel this makes it important to understand this group of men properly and expose their mindset as individuals.
as the saying goes, i feel it's important to "know your enemy".. i realize it's very convenient to think of the governing body as being "evil" when we consider that they are ultimately responsible for all the damaging jw teachings and beliefs.
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Etude
Who know what lurks in the hearts of men! I think that the WTBTS could take a lesson from Deuteronomy 22:8, which states: "When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it." Since they're so hell-bent on "principles" from the old testament they should surrender to the authorities for commiting negligence that has cause so much pain and possibly death (like in Malawi). Their policies and reversal of policies have had untold consequences on families and individuals. They may not be evil, but their are quite guilty.
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Rene Vazquez
by Etude indoes anybody know how to get in touch with him, if he's still alive?
yes, that's the rene that's mentioned in the franz's "crisis of conscience" i think i knew him better than he knew me, way back when.
i feel regret that i didn't approach him many years ago when i saw him on the street.
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Etude
Does anybody know how to get in touch with him, if he's still alive? Yes, that's the Rene that's mentioned in the Franz's "Crisis of Conscience" I think I knew him better than he knew me, way back when. I feel regret that I didn't approach him many years ago when I saw him on the street. When he was a Witness, I thought that he was one of the most "balanced" and intelligent individuals I'd come in contact among the Witnesses. I'd like to get in touch with him if that's possible. Anyone?
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25
"we were just talking...shes not free to remarry...we werent flirting or doing anything wrong"
by WuzLovesDubs inthats what my soon to be exhusband just said to me.
i finally after 25 years of dealing with him and the jws and a litany of other shit, told him two weeks ago i want out.
he wrote me a letter this week and made a list of allllll the things he hates: about my beliefs, the fact that i left jehovah, broke my vows to god, my hobbies, celebrations, what i watch on tv, my parenting, keeping the kids out of the jws, not having any friends....and then said well i dont hate "you".
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Etude
WuzLovesDubs: If you're resolute to leave him, please don't let him push your buttons. I thought: If he and the other "sister" happen to get it on because of the emotional intimacy they seem to be sharing, then he's the one who's going to be before the elders explaining himself, plus he'll drag her down with him for what happened. Either way, whether he does it or not, it shouldn't make any difference to you. I know it's easier said than done, but nothing he does further should change your decision.
Then I thought: No. She needs to be prepared. Here's why: I knew a guy who worked at the same compony I did and his girlfriend, a nice lady. After my wife and I became friends with them as a couple, I learned that she used to be a Witless. What happened was that her husband at the time, also a Witless, had an affair with her mother. Holy crap! I had never personally heard of such a thing before. In an ironic twist, the husband begged forgiveness to the elders. The elders turned and asked my friend to come to a meeting, I guess with the intent that since the husband asked Jehovah for forgiveness that she would forgive him too. When she refused, they disfellowshipped her instead. My understanding is that he and her mother are still in the congregation and she's out.
So, it's possible that from your actions, you'll get some backlash. So be ready. Let him eat his own vomit. I'm speaking metaphorically.
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Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?
by matt2414 inhere are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.
1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.
" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.
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Etude
Why did I ignore the inconsistencies? Because I was hooked on their emotional jollies. Like many people, I was emotionally vulnerable along with being 16 years old and somewhat naive. I think that like many others, I felt a displacement in my time and with the older generation. The JWs presented something different and a very accomodating support group to feed my emotional teenage state. To this day, I still miss the fellowship. I wouldn't take a million dollars in exchange for any of that experience. But, I would give a damn penny for any of it now.
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Etude
Miles3: "Etude, thing is you're talking about the fossilisation process, and 14 C dating isn't used in those cases." I would have agreed with you if I hadn't found out that wood (possibly other organic matter) can petrify rather quickly. One source I found in Wiki-answers says it can happen in a matter of days, given the right cocktail of minerals. Another says that it can happen in less than 10 years (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_it_take_petrification_to_occur). I have to say that I didn't pursue to find the basis for that conclusion. However, I can't find any refutation either. So, I don't really know why 14 C would necessarily be excluded from testing fossilized material.
"most fossils are remineralised with silica" -- What I've found is that there are several things that influence petrifaction: Silification, Pyritization (iron and sulfur) and Replacement ( calcite, silica, pyrite, and hematite). And since 14 C can also make up water in addition to the "soup" that would contaminate a specimen, it's not unreasonable to question the process (petrifaction) as one that might influence and contaminate the readings.
"For making the difference between a specimen that has been perminaralised and one that hasn't, try burning fossilised wood." The process of 14 C extraction involves high-temperature pyrolysis-combustion. Yes, you can "burn" some "rocks". The whole point of it is to extract carbon in the form of CO 2 and then take a reading of nuclear decay.
"... it doesn't work like that. Athmosphere is global" Absolutely not! Veerabhadran Ramanathan, (UCSD and Harvard), one of the world's leading climatologists, pointed to an interesting situation regarding the distribution of contaminants in the air. He (and some colleagues) noticed the difference between the seemingly "unpolluted" Maldives Islands (because they don't have sufficient sources of pollution) noticing that only the southern tip of one of their islands is actually pollution "free". Apparently, The Maldives sit in swath of polluted air currents coming from India. But the "unpolluted" tip that has "clean air" is enjoying a current from Antarctica. Bottom line is that there are distinct currents and divisions in the atmosphere which can isolate the presence of contaminats. That has been a long standing suspicion. The measurements by Ramanathan between the part ofThe Maldives that is polluted and the part that isn't revealed a difference in the amount of sunlight that actually reached the ground.
Bottom line is this:
- I absolutely believe in the testing method and procedure and in the science behind 14 C testing.
- I don't doubt that the venues and results from 14 C testing are accurate.
- I do believe that different materials require different ways of testing.
- I do believe that many results (perhaps a majority) of 14 C testing definitely reflect accurate dates in the 10ths of thousands of years.
Clear enough? But I also think that the accuracy in age of some (not all) of the items tested can be skewed by the very reasons I'm arguing. But that's not the fault of the science and more a problem associated with the specimen. I've tried to reply to some of the assumptions I feel people have made about testing. The very controversy between scientists about the issue (the testing of the Shroud of Turin being one example and the questions about dendrochronology being another) is for me enough cause to not swallow the testing of everything hook, line and sinker.
In the process, it's easy to lose the fact that while I believe in the testing, I have some doubts about some conclusions for the reasons I've stated. I also believe that there probably is a preponderance of items tested that result in accurate dating. But what I simply tried to establish is that 14 C testing can provide incorrect age conclusion as well (in spite of having a lot of success) and that the reasons that happens may be beyond our control due to our lack of some knowledge about the original environment of the object we're testing, even if that only happens once in a while. In the discussion, I was merely offering reasons why that's possible.
Lastly, I never meant to insinuate that Earth's previous warming was due to a "water canopy". I merely mention that such is one possibility, heavy concentrations of CO 2 being another, the flipping of the magnetic field being yet another. I don't think you want me to find "remnants" of a water canopy, 'cause that would be just plain crazy. I base my guess on the strata revelations that show so many parts of the earth were once (not all at once) under water and on ice-core records, which show multiple occurrences of heavier CO 2 deposits. I really want to stick a fork in this one. I'm done.
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Etude
mP, you're making it way too complicated. You make it sound as if I said that once the Earth was warm and then it was cool. No. I realize that the cycle has happened many, many times. This is why it's even easier to conclude that multiply floods on different parts of the Earth at different times can upset and contaminate what was once buried. The ice-core data alone reveals multiple instances of carbon concentration in the atmosphere. It's almost the equivalent of dendrochronology, except maybe more precise. You also assumed that I'm only basing my observations on the increase of CO 2 . Just plain old water vapor in heavy concentrations may do the trick. The other thing I didn't mention is something that is in existence today but for which I have no proof existed in the past and that is high-atmospheric particles like the ones that are now causing global dimming. I simply suggested that CO 2 is one of the possible reasons for the weather changes. If anything, the charts you show make my point that the constant changing weather may be responsible of the upheaval the can introduce contamination into specimens.