does anyone know kerry miller, formerly from wakeeney, ks and port st. lucie, fl?
we knew each other from bethel in new york in the mid '70s and we were roomates in steamboat springs, co back in '79.
i don't know if he's still at it (a jw).
Does anyone know Kerry Miller, formerly from Wakeeney, KS and Port St. Lucie, FL? We knew each other from Bethel in New York in the mid '70s and we were roomates in Steamboat Springs, CO back in '79. I don't know if he's still at it (a JW). Nevertheless, I would dearly like to talk to him. Thanks.
Etude.
let me start by saying that i deplore much of the teachings of the watchtower and am convinced that it is not "the truth.
" either through ignorance, error or deliberate action they have caused great heartache for thousands and unknown heartache for millions.
i have thoroughly disconnected myself from their teachings and would rightly speak out against what i know to be harmful in that organization.
Hmmm A lot of good points here, Logansrun, but stay tuned. One of the reasons I joined the Jehovahs Witnesses organization was because I thought I had found the TRUTH. Im a lover of the truth. When I found I didnt have it after all and subsequently my world crushing down upon me, I because a skeptic. I took a course in Logic in college in order to get to the fundamental question of what is truth. So, I can see why one should not accept outright statements as true about anything without checking the validity of the facts (that is called deductive reasoning). But thats a personal responsibility (caveat emptor). I saw quite a bit of debating on the subject of how the Organization is portrayed right here on this newsgroup on another thread. There was one difference though, most people spoke about individuals being good and/or bad in the Organization. To me, thats a great distinction. I contributed for the argument that there is a great deal of genuinely good people in the Jehovahs Witnesses organization.
I havent been on this newsgroup for long and Ive only joined nearly 20 years after I left the Organization. And when you say: It's not like the GB gathers together on Wednsday mornings and says, It's not like the GB gathers together on Wedn[e]sday mornings and says, "Let's see...how can we make people miserable and lie to them?", I completely agree with you. But the fact that they are not purposeful or duplicitous in their decisions and edicts for the flock does not make them any less responsible for all the hurt and consequences that ensue. Even if they didnt cause any hurt, solely on principle, its very difficult to cast an organization that manipulates history and morality as doing some good. Their deeds negate any good that they may have done. And like Francois, I cant think of anything good that they (as an organization) have done in any community. I can only think of things they have done in order to perpetuate themselves and their doctrines. That does not deny the members capacity for having humane feelings, but Gizmo is right: Im sure Hitler loved and was kind to some people too. So are some All-American individuals who dote on their children and grandchildren and yet go out and lynch another person because he or she happens to be black. Our laws allow people to be put to death for that. But, those are examples of individuals, and as in the case of Hitler, it does not condemn an entire country (Germany or the U.S.) as all bad. A good parallel would more like a corporation that knowingly is responsible for harming citizens because of a product they make. We punish the corporation and the individuals responsible for such things. Alas, their deeds have not yet caught up with the Watchtower Society, at least on the obvious things like the pedophile issue.
I dont see a way to make them pay on the moral side of things (not the policies that actually violate the law). As a condition for coming back into the fold after I was disfellowshiped, I told the elders that I had written to the Organization asking them to explain to me why hundreds of people (Witnesses) had died in Malawi for not being able to carry a political party membership in violation of Jehovahs law and why brothers in Mexico were able to obtain with an overt bribe a card that certified that they had served in the military without violating their conscience. The Societys answer to my letter was to send the elders over to my house. The elders answer to my question was to refer me to the Society for an answer. Willingly or unwillingly, purposefully or ignorantly, theres too much blood on their hands and I cant think of any good that they have done that can cancel that. Yes, they taught me something about the Bible, but I think had I not met them, I would have learned any way. Most people are not confident of that, just like my mother, and thats probably the main reason why she doesnt leave. She doesnt think she can find good biblical instruction anywhere else. It shows how good a job the Witnesses have done on her.
Bottom line is that we should be cautions as snakes when it comes to swallowing anybodys statements as truth. Im the same way when I read a newspaper. The Watchtower house has to come down. Just because it has plenty of room and modern conveniences does not make it livable. Its foundation is sinking and its structural integrity will not pass inspection. I would hope that something takes its place. I would love to be reunited with all the good people I knew while I was there. But I would not walk through the door of that house until its rebuilt and the people responsible for its present conditions are evicted.
Etude.
in order to lend a helping hand, i put up a new website dedicated to housing audio and video files related to the watchtower society.
currently, all media files are related to pedophilia.
you can access this new website by going to http://www.dirtclod.com.
Thank you!
Etude
mine was at the kh giving a talk - got muddled up and almost said the f word into the mike.
in fact - i said it in my mind or under my breath and then panicked because i thought i had said it out loud but the audience didn't seem to react so i new i must have not said it out loud.
i wonder if anyone noticed me breaking into a cold sweat........... anyone got any more?
Wait just a minute! You wore pants to the meetings? Where the heck is that congregation? It must be here in California, certainly not back East or the South. That's reason for disfellopshiping in some places. Maybe they can be worn in Alaska, with a matching double-botton wolverine parka.
Etude.
well, it had to come to this eventually.. this winter my wife and daughter and i celebrated christmas with my in-laws, with whom we currently live (high school english teachers don't make much money!).
my in-laws have been inactive for about two years, and this year, they decided to celebrate the holidays.
one reason for this is that their son, who is eight, has multiple disabilities -- can't see, trouble hearing, other, quite sever, issues -- and christmas, with its presents and wrapping and loud carols and trees and wreaths is, well, a very accessible experience for him, the way, say, my kingdom ministry and the watchtower are not.. well, as a household we went all out.
Dedalus:
I'm so enraged I could spit sparks. Those bastards! I would hope that something happens to those elders to make them realize their insensitivity. I'm not vindictive and don't whish them a tragedy. But at this very moment, I don't really care if it did.
I hope you're dad comes around and your brother-in-law improves in health. How's you father-in-law fairing and what does he say about what happened with the elders at the door?
Etude
i was lead to beleive that cleanlinness was next to godliness,that jehovah is a clean god, .
as we as a family sat down behind ( being the operative word ) a couple of elderly sisters ,arriving late we took the only seats available,even then we caused disruption as we even i were fighting over the seats as to where one would sit ,sure enough i allways seemed to end up in the firing line of these elderly fat arsed sisters,whom allways ended up farting in your face,the smell was so strong that you could actualy taste the stench it in the air 10 minutes later,i allways felt sick ,my children grinning .
how did you cope yourself
The only specific experience I can recall regarding farting in the Kingdom Hall, aside from the occasional stealthy odorific breeze that I might have encountered while sitting or going up and down the isle with a microphone, has to do with a child, of course. She was (about 6 years of age) sitting somewhere in the middle of the Hall next to her mother. I was sitting about 2 or 3 rows behind where I could actually see her. It was a Sunday afternoon Watchtower study, you know, when you're kinda groggy and bored and the subject is not too interesting. Somewhere in the middle of the hour, I could see the little girls shoulders shake a bit. She was in the middle of a heave to let out this big sneeze. Unfortunately, she tried to contain it and it backfired. I guess she was packing a lot of punch in it because she almost seemed to lift off the chair at the same time the rumble from her backside echo through the Hall and kinda woke everybody up. She quickly turned to her mother in an explicative manner and said: "Mommy, it just came out!" I lost it right then and there, although I was able to compose myself just long enough to walk out and not have a "back firing" experience myself.
Etude.
i had a terrifying experience this morning and i'm writing about it as a lesson on how we perceive things.
this type of thing has happened to me several times in my life, but since it just happened again this morning, and ghosts seem to be a topic of interest on this board, i thought i'd share it.. i was staying at a friend's house while she was away.
this place is an old apartment complex built in the 1920's in san francisco.
Rem:
I think I experienced something like that many years ago when I was a teenager. What caught my attention about your tale are the following three things: 1) you woke up in an alert state; 2) you said you were paralyzed and 3) the sense of fear hit you before or just at the time everything else unfolded. I experienced the exact same symptoms. It was about 4:00 AM and I had fallen asleep on the couch in our living room. I woke up like I had not been sleeping and then started to hear the wood floors squeak and the doorknob turn while unable to speak or move. It scared the guacamole out of me.
I may be deviating a bit from the subject, but all this makes me think about some disorders that many people experience. Im pragmatic and believe in science. So much so, that I feel perfectly comfortable in saying I dont know if there isnt a reasonable explanation instead of making one fit. So I explain our common experience (with some available scientific evidence), as the result of recreations by the brain, as communicated by chemical messengers to the Limbic system while it kept it secret from you cerebrum and motor centers (phew!) But going beyond, people who experience Turrets Syndrome, who are manic compulsive or have Schizophrenia obviously demonstrate something thats way beyond their control in a permanent and devastating way. In the case of Schizophrenia, his or her delusions are so vivid and real, the person cant help but react to the voices and the visions. You and I (and some of the other commentators here) are lucky that we only experience a freaky moment of this type a few times in our lives. Those other poor people I just described have to live with their condition on a daily basis, which takes me to my point: Were supposed to have free will. How much free will does someone with Turrets Syndrome or manic compulsion or Schizophrenia has? More over, its obvious in my opinion that, what makes us who we are and makes us do the things we do is communicated via chemical messages that our bodies produce. In other words, we are at the mercy of our own body chemistry.
The conditions I mentioned are obvious and extreme, but I think that there are many, many shades in between that make us either have an addictive personality (or not), or behave a certain way and lose control temporarily (or not). That is something I dont think the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and their governing body will ever get. When someone cant help what they do, often the organization reacts intolerantly and will disfellowship the individual. All of this makes me wonder how much self will we really have. I guess to put it simply, thats what imperfection is, thats what the Bible calls sin. Thank God that Jesus knew that. Its a shame that the Watchtower organization does not. If it's something like a "possession", it has to be demons. If it deals with morality, it has to be the person's fault.
Etude.
i had posted some comments on another thread about good and bad witnesses in response to a request, but i think i waited too long and the thread died before anyone read post.
i'd like to start a new thread just to share some of my experiences, particularly at bethel.
here's the previous post: .
Thanks for the encouragement, Utopian_Raindrops. I have several pages of my story and I haven't even gotten to the items that really bugged my regarding policies at Bethel. Here are two other excerpts:
On my first day, shortly after I met my first roommate in our quarters on the 7 th floor of 107 Columbia Heights, he proceeded to tell me his rules. Basically he told me that since he was there first, I had to adjust to his ways and not the other way around. I never expected this. I thought that gentle, spiritual people would surround me. I cant blame the Jehovahs Witnesses for my rude awakening. I can only blame my sheltered upbringing. Well, I dont know what bug had crawled up his anus, but I immediately decided that this is not the sort of guy with whom I was going to be buddies. He had been on light duty from work at the bookbindery because he nearly got one of his forearms torn off at one of those machines that puts the covers on the books. Obviously, he didnt follow safety procedures. He was rather surprised and almost hurt 2 weeks later when I announced to him that I was moving in with another brother to the roach-infested Towers Hotel from which the Society was leasing 3 or 4 floors and was also planning to purchase. I guess he figured that because I was a newcomer that I would be at his mercy, lost and looking for orientation. Since I lived in NY, I had taken many tours of the facilities and also knew several Bethelites. This gave me a slight advantage and a little less awe.
I dont think I ever spoke to Nathan Knorr, but I heard enough from him to form an opinion of what kind of person he was. It seemed obvious to me that he called the shots around Bethel and the Organization and that his right hand man was Fred Franz. You must bear in mind that these feelings were half conscious and that even if I fully realized them, it was in a reverent manner. You just dont criticize authority when it seems that awesome. It was early in my Bethel service that the change came which instituted the Elder arrangement in the congregations. It was also about that time that there were changes in the hierarchy and the governing body came really to be. Knorr was not happy about that and it showed from his speeches to the family at breakfast time. I dont know if those events made him more so, but he proved to be insensitive to the point of being cruel. Once, on an open microphone that broadcasted to all the dining rooms in the Bethel complex, he proceeded to chastise a sister who didnt show up to read the daily text out of the year book at breakfast. Naming her, he said something to the effect that she must have better things to do than to show up. Not a couple of days earlier, I had seen that sister nearly pass out as her husband caught her on her way to the floor while she was trying to exit the dining room during the prayer just before breakfast. It turns out she was pregnant and had severe morning sickness. It didnt take an anointed of God to figure out why she didnt show. But even if he didnt know, his derogatory comments were at least not appropriate and were meant to embarrass her in front of the entire Bethel family.
Etude.
i had posted some comments on another thread about good and bad witnesses in response to a request, but i think i waited too long and the thread died before anyone read post.
i'd like to start a new thread just to share some of my experiences, particularly at bethel.
here's the previous post: .
Yes indeed. I started learning when I was around 20, before I went to Bethel, from my aunt who was a concert pianist. I gave my first recital in Camy Hall in New York, back around 1973. I found that I couldn't handle the pressure of audiences. After all, I started because of a personal desire for music and not to make a career. Piano etudes were written as studies of certain playing techniques but were elevated to a high art form by many famous composers.
Etude.
i had posted some comments on another thread about good and bad witnesses in response to a request, but i think i waited too long and the thread died before anyone read post.
i'd like to start a new thread just to share some of my experiences, particularly at bethel.
here's the previous post: .
Thank you, Gopher. It has taken me a few years to muddle through my feelings in order to write down my story. Overall, I think it's been cathartic. I didn't know I had such juicy stories but it's been hard drawing them out. I was there when there were a lot of changes afoot but I have a hard time placing dates. For many years, I had an aversion to anything having to do with the Watchtower.
Etude.
