Posts by Etude

150

They will be DFing me soon for apostasy...

by RayPublisher in

well i figured i should give you all an update.

they will be dfing me soon for apostasy.

it is not a huge surprise and i am not afraid nor "shaking in my boots", however i will admit it is stressful right now.

Etude

RayPublisher:

Wow, man. You have some major guacamoles! What I mean is that you went in with significant resolve and immovable intent. Many people would have walked away or not attended, as some recommended to you. Yet, your knowledge and sincerity didn't allow them to "get away with it", in a sense. I can see how an ordinary man full of conviction can accomplish extraordinary things. It may not seem extraordinary to most outsiders who don't realize how daunting it is to address that type of "Star Chamber" in a subtle and non-adversarial manner. It takes a lot of will to combat the years of fear and awe such a confrontation makes many Jehovah's Witnesses feel.

Whether the members of the committee that placed you in judgement admit it or not or whether they actually feel it or not, the very act of summoning you to their presence is an act of power and control. I'm so glad you stood up to them and addressed them with their own weapons. I hope you address your wife (ex-wife?) in the same manner. If she's going to accuse you, have her put up. Without evidence (unless she gets people to lie for her), she can't actually ascertain abuse. It will end up a he-said-she-said situation.

I really do hope the best for you because it's obvious that, in spite of what's transpired, you maintain a good heart. I hope you don't confuse forgiveness with doing everything you can to expose them and stop them. I mean that in a personal sense, because it's obvious that by publicizing this event as you have, you're already doing what you can let the world know.

I thank you for what you've presented and for your courage and I hope the very best healing for you especially in the recognition that the very thing that allowed you to remain with the WTBTS for so many years, your sense of spirituality, is still vital and in need, even without the Bible.

78

I'm going to see 2016 Tomorrow Morning!

by Farkel in

jw
friends

yep.

together with my liberal friend!

i couldn't believe that movie is playing in no less than ten theatres in cowtown where i live.. i just ordered my copy of "the amateur" and it was only $4.95.

Etude

I would love to see the film. However, based on the reviews and inaccuracies I've seen about it, I'm going to let someone else plunk money for it. I wonder why the conspiracy mongers don't explore the other half of Obama? After all, he was raised by white grandparents that influenced him to think that via education and opportunity (which they might have provided via access to the white community), one can advance in life enough to be president. Imagine that!

26

Here are the pics of the 2012 Gilead Graduation, etc........

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

http://andreandclaudia.blogspot.com/.

Etude

GMAFB! "Do not become excessively wise"? How wise should one be? Just, sufficiently wise? And what WTF would that be? Is there an implication that we should not question or argue some issues? Yeah, that I can believe if one starts to reason properly after being trained so well to become a missionary.

One can never be too wise. If one is wise to begin with, one would learn to listen and shut the hell up when necessary, which is problably what Herold Corkren actually meant: Don't show off how smart you are. A wise man doesn't display his wisdom around as a banner, which is something many Witlesses like to do. Knowledge? Now, that's a different thing. One can be knowledgeable and be cluless about what the implications of facts are. But a wise person will always be humbled by how much s/he doesn't know.

68

Have you met anyone on the Governing Body?

by Christ Alone in

jw
friends

i posted on another thread about a couple of my experiences of meeting the governing body while i was in brooklyn.

i wanted to see if anyone else had any experiences along these same lines.

i met most of the ones that were current during the 2001-2003 years.

Etude

Christ Alone, holy guacamole! I had forgotten about that! Yes, it's true. However, I distinctly rememer the elevator ride. I also remember that when I moved to the Farm in Wallkill Co., I had to get a dispensation to ride the elevator due to a foot injury. Was there a limit in Brooklyn to the floor level or where there some other exceptions? Man, I'm feel nostalgic wishing I could still climb 7 flights of stairs again.

64

I Do Not Think Everyone That is a JW Wastes Their Life

by Magwitch in

my 97 year old grandmother died last week.

she was actually born and raised a jw.

her mother (my great grandmother) was a russelite.

Etude

I'm a bit late into this, but found all the discussion very interesting. It made me think how far back and how widely we would impose our blame on people to the point of not being forgiving. If anyone thinks for a minute that it's only the Jdubs that have caused so much pain and are therefore responsible as individuals, think again. If we apply that view everywhere, we would condemn with the same intensity the majority of the world's population who adhere to one belief or another, religious or not. Yes, it's likely that we all bear some responsibility for inflicting some pain on others, whether we realize it or not. In fact, I know that (if we were all ex-JWs), we will never shake our personal responsibility for the people we converted, or the people we shunned, or the people we so self-righteously condescended upon -- that means you jookbeard and anyone else who still blames those others that stayed in. We should condemn the act or belief and not the individuals.

68

Have you met anyone on the Governing Body?

by Christ Alone in

jw
friends

i posted on another thread about a couple of my experiences of meeting the governing body while i was in brooklyn.

i wanted to see if anyone else had any experiences along these same lines.

i met most of the ones that were current during the 2001-2003 years.

Etude

I met Fred and Raymond Franz, although I really knew Raymond much better. Also, Dan Sydlic and Nathan Knorr. I had decided that I admired Fred Franz due to a story someone told me about him riding in an elevator and singing "Jingle Bells". Everyone was surprised because it was considered a Christmas song. Somehow he explained that there was not one reference in the song about Christmas. I thought: "Well, that's unbiased thinking and a bit out-of-the-box", hence my admiration. Later, I came to realize that he was protected and revered by Knorr for his biblical interpretations. I point to him as the main protagonist for starting the 1975/Armageddon speech that cause so much grief. He is the main reason Knorr wanted all Bethelites to remain single, something he did not prescribe for himself.

Raymond was a dear man. I could sense his dedication and even some cautiousness when dealing with some subjects. He endeavored to be knowledgeable. My impression was that in most instances, his wife Cynthia was reserved and relatively quiet compared to him. But I could also tell that she was no slouch and was very intelligent.

I thought that Dan Sydlic was a good guy. But, I watched him revel a little at the fact that he became much more significant after Knorr was not in charge anymore and the Governing Body, of which he became a member of, took over.

Knorr was a tyrant and an ass. He gave a few of us "new boys" a condescending look while riding in an elevator as we talked about the experience of the first night watch at the Squibb building. It's possible that we were overly enthusiastic, but I didn't think it deserved the scowling look. I thought he would understand our situation being new and ignorant. I don't know how many others noticed it or even if they were aware that he was in the elevator, but I sure as hell did. It turns out he had very specific ideas of how a bethelite should act.

On another occasion, he gave me a "killer" look (I think that but for the briefness of the occurrence he would have turned around a said something to me). I was rushing on a Saturday morning from the Towers Hotel (back before it was purchased and renovated) to take a call from a family member at the main building. In those days, the Bethel front desk would get a call and they would have to make another call to the "Towers" desk who would in turn ring the hall phone (we only had a few floors then) and someone would come knocking at your door. I ran out of the Towers Hotel and was still trying to put my coat on as I reached the front of the 107 building. As we passed each other, Knorr gave me a disapproving scowl, which I duly noted. I think that if he had turned around and said something to me, I would have unloaded on him, despite the consequences. I had worked the night before, was in bed when I got the call and was not in the mood for any crap.

64

I Do Not Think Everyone That is a JW Wastes Their Life

by Magwitch in

my 97 year old grandmother died last week.

she was actually born and raised a jw.

her mother (my great grandmother) was a russelite.

Etude

Yes, absolutely. I hope your grandmother, in spite of her faithfulness, was not one to have shunned you and neglet members of your family that did not believe the same. Some people are like that. My mother never shunned me and would have ceased to be a Witness first if she was pushed to avoid her children.

At first, I thought it would be a loss anyway that someone would not otherwise thrive and become something "better" for being restricted with such teachings. But then I realize that in every religion, espcially the entrenched traditional and culturally attached ones (Quakers, Amish, etc), many people lead simple and satisfying lives. Not everyone can be an outlier. For me, I just think it's a shame to live in darkness no matter how garrish and blaring the light I face may be. As Patrick Henry once said: "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it."

51

What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.

they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.

as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.

Etude

I hear you loud and clear @NewChapter. For me, the guilt was about having to do something. I remember wondering on several occasions, if Christ's yoke was "easy", why it felt such a burden to have to go to field service, or to have to go to the damned meeting, or to have to choose between what they said and what my heart told me to do. Finally, it got to be a pain in the ass and I had to take medication for it. I got a prescription.

14

Jehovah's Witnesses do not get divorces

by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

jw
friends

famous last words.. this is what my mum told me when papa moved out.

when it did finally happen months later, it was because he had left jehovah.

i hated him for many years and refused to speak to him.

Etude

@LMSA: Congratulations on your new progeny! I think I understand your situation with your father. Just the other day, I wrote to my sister telling her how all the years we've lost (regardless of blame or even due to the fact that we made up after she left the WTS) can never be recovered. I don't know what it would take to make up for it. But whatever it is, the clock resets. Depending on the individuals, a new relationship has to start, one that may never be what either person would have expected or hoped for. That's gotta be the worst part about being a Witless. I'm sure there are exceptions if the familial ties were strong and not severely damaged.

I think that one of you showing a significant gesture towards the other would go a long way. You started by contacting him and telling him about his grand-daughter. It appears he was touched. Spending sufficient time together can foster that new relationship. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that life and circumstances do not always afford us. It takes a great deal of effort to make that happen. But by all means, keep that new door open.

51

What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.

they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.

as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.

Etude

The worst thing for me was the slow and gradual deception I came to realize. I think that perhaps I would have put up with all the ridicule, the going out to "service", even some guilt (of which I already had plenty) and listening to stupid comments from the platform every week for the sake of being right and on the true path. That's why it hurt so much more to learn I was so deeply decieved. Given what I've come to learn about myself, it was only a matter of time. But I regret that I wasted so many years of my life without pursuing my education, my creativity, my freedom and giving up lots of nooky. I also lost my family. What a waste of time!