Posts by toladest

13

A letter to MY DAUGHTER,,,,PLEASE FORGIVE ME.....

by wildfire in

jw
friends

.

i know you come tothis site to check out things...so if this is the only way to talk toyou then i will do it and make it all public.....for all my true friends to see....i know that i didnt protect you from your step father....the blessed annointed one who made allof our lives a living hell....i was the parent,,you were the child,,,and the children are the future...(maybe home is where the heart is giving up to the one.....we spend all of our lives going out of our minds,,,looking back to our birth, those who stood up for love in spite of the hate.....) those are words of a song by live called they stood up for love....... i was in the midst of a mind--bending cult,,for so many years...and i know all of my children have suffered in one way or the other...even tho only one is still an active witness...we are all scarred and will always be...but my love for you and your brothers and sisters is the one true thing i can give you.... please dont take my grand children away from me..seeing them the other day for that brief moment gave me such happiness---i think back to the happy times when they were born and i was there for two of them....how many grand parents can say that....they will never know their grand pa ,,but dear daughter please dont take away their grand mother who loves them soooo much..... life is too short...each day is precious...please lets get back to forgiveness and some kind of sweet co --existence...my other daughter wrote a precious,,caring letter that made me cry and cry..... i would never come between you and your man....you know that...and i know he is under alot of pressure,,and i care about him very much,, he is the father of my darling grand kids..and done so much for me and my children....i know i can never repay him for all he has done...i just hope he knows that i love him too.

please my first born...know that not a day goes by that i dont think of the wonderful..strong..person you have become,,and how very proud of you i am....you have the chance to be the better mother to your 3 children...without the influence of a dangerous cult plaguing your every move..and iknow my grand children will grow strong,, happy and well adjusted because of you and their father/.... again please find it in your heart to forgive me...i need you in my life to make it complete for this journey would not be complete without you in it .......

toladest

Wildfire, I talked to your daughter and she really loves you and is not trying to shun you. She is just feeling very pulled in all directions lately. She is trying to be supportive of her sister right now and as you have admitted they have been through a lot of bad sh** in their lives. She loves you and feels for you, but she also has to take other things into consideration. I know that you know what some of the issues are and I think you just need to give it some time. There are also some things in your own life that you need to work on if you want to be close to them. She also understands that you were very young and a victim yourself for many years, but at the same time, they were put through hell because of your inabilty to protect them. Not blaming you, you just need to understand that it all takes a toll. Your middle daughter probably has not reached the point of forgivness, but then I have not spoken to her so I can't be sure.I think (from what your older daughter said) that she blames you for your youngest still being a JW. She needs time to figure it out. And maybe some space too. The abuse suffered by you and your kids is some of the worst I have heard of. Look at your oldest and be proud of where she is in life. Be happy that she has managed to become a very good mom to 3 wonderful kids. Be glad that she has found a guy that she loves dearly and that loves her back. Be proud of the person she has become despite the horendous abuse she sufferd. She is the most empathetic person I know. But remember that she is also fragile. She has her husband pulling one way because he wants to protect her and what they have built (even if he is a bit over-protective), her sister is pulling another way because she has a lot of anger in her and she is very young yet. And you are pulling yet another direction. All she wants is to make everyone happy and this does not seem possible at this point. Be careful not to "break" her. I think the best advice I could give you is to be patient, be ready to receive them when they are ready to receive you, work on getting your life in order in the meantime, and just try not to push. I know it's hard for you and all you want is for everyone to be one big happy family, but it will NOT happen over night. Just remember that she does love you very much!

Lots of Love,

You Know Who

39

Education - How encouraging low self esteem creates better witnesses.

by BigG in

funny title you might think but consider this point and apologies if i am covering old ground here...its not intentional.. i was raised by my mother who was and is a devout jw and as such until i was 20 (10 years ago) i was the same...trying my best to fit into the social environment i clearly was not made for but benefiting from good wholesome association with fellow brothers and sisters (note the sarcastic tone...make what you will of it).. althought at the time i didnt realise it but i was what others consider intelligent and quite academically able; i had a mind like a sponge and would spend hours in the jw library at the kh (which surprisingly enough contained non jw literature)...it was this that i read and would digest endlessly where i could.. one of those books (why it was there i dont know), was what i later undertood to be criminal law reports concerning cases that had gone before the courts.

my childish thirst for knowledge was intrigued...(i was then about 12).

the legal arguments i hadnt a clue what they meant but the facts surrounding these crimes were good reading.. i then knew i wanted to be a lawyer and that was what i said when an elder asked me what i wanted to do when i grew up; i mentioned trusting this man that i had read a book in the kh library and found it interesting...and that i wanted to be lawyer...i remember him smiling and saying that it was better to pioneer rather than seek a highly paid job...personally i didnt know what he meant properly but i felt a bit sad...and demotivated...i later in the week went back into the library and found the book had gone...!!.

toladest

Darkside, nice to see you here. It really does help to share what we have been through with people that understand. I hope this site helps you as much as it has me.

25

Opinions on Age of Baptismal Candidates

by redskymedic in

jw
friends

i am sure i am not the only one that thinks it's ridiculous that they allow pre-teens and young teens to get baptized.

i know now that i did not have a full understanding of the implications of baptism.

i did it primarily because that's what was expected.

toladest

I was baptized at 14 years old. I was trying SO hard to be liked and accepted. One of the primary people that pushed me towards baptism has since been convicted of child molestation. But then I was a child that was trying so hard to be loved. I did not have emotionally present or attentive parents. My mom had too many younger children to care for (5 younger that were 9 and under at the time) and my dad ( a non-JW) was an alcoholic and work-oholic.

So I got baptized, and became an auxillary pioneer often going "out in service" with the child molesting pioneer/ministerial servant. I had no clue what I was doing. Everyone at the hall was SO proud of me though as I was SUCH a good example to the other young ones. Funny that most of those people would not come to my wedding even though it was in a Kingdom Hall, because I was only 17 and "too young to make such a big decision". When the elders were DFing me for questioning the handling of the child molester and the WTS's decision to stand by him, I tried to tell them that it was that very man that presueded me to get baptized and I did not do it for Jehovah. I said that my baptizm should be voided rather than being DFed, as I was not old enough to make such an important decision in my life. They did not agree, and so I was DFed.

I am still very happily married, but not still a JW. Go figure.

28

JWs and charitable work

by kj in

jw
friends

i've read on here several times about how jws are discouraged for doing charitable work for anybody other than jws, and that they are discouraged from contributing financially to non-jw charities.

are there some references to this in their literature that someone could point me to?.

also, i had a discussion with a jw about a recent relief effort some jws did in florida.

toladest

On the insurance end of it, there would have to be reciepts/bills for the labor in order for the insurance to pay for the labor. The insurance company does not just hand you the value of the house OR how much you have it insured for. They pay you what it costs to rebuild up to your policy limits. They will however, in many cases pay you to do the labor yourself. But it is a complicated process. IF the WTS billed the homeowner for the labor than it is NOT volunteer work. It would be interesting to know how they worked this one. Also, if they are asking for building materials to be repayed, it surely does not seem charitable to me. They could just as easily have a contractor do the same thing. The exception would be the uninsured homeowners. Do they expect the materials and labor to be paid back on one of their special "low intrest" loan programs that they have for Kingdom Halls?

39

Education - How encouraging low self esteem creates better witnesses.

by BigG in

funny title you might think but consider this point and apologies if i am covering old ground here...its not intentional.. i was raised by my mother who was and is a devout jw and as such until i was 20 (10 years ago) i was the same...trying my best to fit into the social environment i clearly was not made for but benefiting from good wholesome association with fellow brothers and sisters (note the sarcastic tone...make what you will of it).. althought at the time i didnt realise it but i was what others consider intelligent and quite academically able; i had a mind like a sponge and would spend hours in the jw library at the kh (which surprisingly enough contained non jw literature)...it was this that i read and would digest endlessly where i could.. one of those books (why it was there i dont know), was what i later undertood to be criminal law reports concerning cases that had gone before the courts.

my childish thirst for knowledge was intrigued...(i was then about 12).

the legal arguments i hadnt a clue what they meant but the facts surrounding these crimes were good reading.. i then knew i wanted to be a lawyer and that was what i said when an elder asked me what i wanted to do when i grew up; i mentioned trusting this man that i had read a book in the kh library and found it interesting...and that i wanted to be lawyer...i remember him smiling and saying that it was better to pioneer rather than seek a highly paid job...personally i didnt know what he meant properly but i felt a bit sad...and demotivated...i later in the week went back into the library and found the book had gone...!!.

toladest

My mother actually pulled me aqnd my siblings out of school when I was in 6th grade. To wanted to "keep me away from the worldly influences". She "taught us at home" which consisted of telling us to read the awake. She had always quoted some article about reading the awake being equivelant to a college education. My younger siblings taught themselves to read and write. One of my brothers had a reading disabilty that was finally diagnosed as an adult, but he never had the self esteem to persue help and still can barely read enough to get by. He is in landscaping now.

When I fianaly left the witnesses I started to read on the internet and learned SO MUCH. I was a stay at home mom and had NO self esteem. Don't get me wrong, I am glad I stayed home when my kids were babies, but once they were in school I felt really useless. First, I got a job as a security dispatcher (thanks to my husband working there and convincing the comm center manager to hire me without a high school diploma) Then I decided to get my GED. It felt really good. I did so well that I was offered a scholarship to a local community college. I took a few courses and carried a 4.0 grade average. Eventually, I got a job closer to home in an insurance agency. I have since become licensed as an agent and have beome office manager as well. If I had remained a JW I would never have been able to do all of this. I would still be auxillary pioneering and putting the WTS oh, uh, I mean "Jehovah" first and feeling like a loser with a 6th grade education.

We have instilled in my kids the importance of a higher education. We want their lives to be easier than ours was. We are doing good now, but it has taken 17 years of struggling to get here.

7

Don't Speak Against The Elders

by toladest in

i can still remember my mother telling me that.

i had gone to her to tell her the truth.

i tried to tell her that daniel fitzwater was not the man he pretended to be.

toladest

Thanks for the support. I was feeling particularly bad yestersday and could not seem to get past it. It was nice to hear from all of you. I am doing better today and I do well for the most part, but somtimes I really miss my mom. She is very faithful about not speaking to me. I have contacted her a few times in the past 6 years, but she is very short with me and makes it clear that she is uncomfortable talking to me. She cries, and I know she sincerely believes that what she is doing is right, but that doesn't help much. I really feel sorry for her. She has been baptized since 1975 and had started studing in 1973. She is 63 now. She never thought she would need a retirement plan or life insurance. My dad never became a JW and divorced her about 10 years ago. She was getting shild support for my younger siblings but never asked for alomony. (they were married 29 years and she had never worked outside the home) Thankfully my father , whose is on mental disabilty himself (screwed up by the vietnam war and he finally broke down) decided to pay her alomony out of the goodness of his heart after the kids had all grown up. She gets very little though and barely scrapes by. Do you think that this faithful women who pioneered for years has ever gotten ANY help from the congergation? Of course not!

34

JW Says:--JWs Are "Not Required" To Go Door To Door!

by Voyager in

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20041217/valleynews/112170011 .

overcast 29. .

toladest

I wrote a letter to the editor on this article. If it gets published I will post it. In effect I told them that I am all for freedom of speech but I don't want them sending potential pedophiles to my door. I wrote about a child molester that was just released from prison in May and how if he wants to REMAIN a JW in good standing he will be required to go door to door. I don't want him at my door!

7

Don't Speak Against The Elders

by toladest in

i can still remember my mother telling me that.

i had gone to her to tell her the truth.

i tried to tell her that daniel fitzwater was not the man he pretended to be.

toladest

I can still remember my mother telling me that. I had gone to her to tell her the truth. I tried to tell her that Daniel Fitzwater was not the man he pretended to be. I was safe to do so now because he had moved out of state. But he was not only a regular pioneer and ministerial servant. He had become an elder. My mother shut me down before I got started. She said "Don't Speak Against the Elders". After all, Jehovah had chosen him. So I put the thoughts away. I maintained my hate and disdain for the monster, but pushed all memories aside. Years later, after hearing he "stepped down" as an elder, I knew why. And I knew it was not to "spend more time with his family". I told my husband why he "stepped down" before we ever heard the truth. The truth that Dan had abused an 8 year old girl who had later (at age 10 or 11) tried to kill herself. The truth that his step-daughter had accused him of the same thing, before he ever met me. In fact she was removed from the home by social services and placed in foster care.The truth the the WTS knew of 17 allegations of abuse.

To this day my mother will not speak against the elders.....

23

Comparing molested children to prostitutes.

by avishai in

here is an excerpt from the "beware the voice of strangers" talk from the 2003 district convention.

this part is obviously referring to the "dateline" special.

notice how they subtly compare the victims with prostitution and insinuate that they are immoral?

toladest

Candidlynuts, I just sent you a note to your message box. I am actually not new here but lost my log-in and password and had to start over. I have not posted here in a long time. I see a lot of new names here. Nice to meet you. Some people may remember me, but I can't remember what my old user name was.

23

Comparing molested children to prostitutes.

by avishai in

here is an excerpt from the "beware the voice of strangers" talk from the 2003 district convention.

this part is obviously referring to the "dateline" special.

notice how they subtly compare the victims with prostitution and insinuate that they are immoral?

toladest

I agree, I see the connection very clearly. It's funny that they mention 8 people were shaken because they watched it. OF COURSE THEY WERE! They saw for themwselves the WTS lying and showing a totally careless attitude toward victims when they did not know they were being taped. If I were still a JW I think that talk would have made me curious as to what could shake these people up so badly.

What is really said is that there are people that watched it and maybe even believed it but just excused it away as men being imperfect. My mother is one of those people. She knows about Dan Fitzwater, having known him personally. She knows he was guilty as charged. She knows he is out of prison now. She knows that he is required as a witness in good standing, to go door to door. She knows I was DFed for questioning the way the situation with him was handled. (never DFed or reproved) But she just won't let herself believe that the WTS has done anything wrong....

Boggels my mind.