to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.
whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.
ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.
erandir,
My wife is still in the organization as well. The reasoning presented must be simple and clear to be of real use. My spouse will not listen to long winded explanations about why something is ok to do. I've been fairly successful in some areas and fantastically unsuccessful in others. Guess that's life.
This is an excellent thread and is the type that will really help a newbie and someone with family still in the org.
Good luck erandir
out of curiosity, i checked out the myjwspace site mentioned in an earlier thread to see if it was growing.
as of now, there are 64 members on the whole site, and a grand total of (all this) one post on the whole forum!
of course, without joining, there is no way to read those posts to cut and paste segments of it here to tear them apart.. they have a chat room where they claim all the people are jws, the topics are safe, and they can be themselves (as dull and preprogrammed as they can get).
I say let them congregate. They are willfully going against Mother's advice and nothing good can come from them hanging out with each other without the elders watchful eyes upon them.
<!-- .style1 { font-family: arial; font-size: 18px; } .style2 { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; } .style3 {color: #ff0000} .style4 {font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: italic; } --> you are much too harsh about the watchtower societysince you were, little we did our best to raise you.
you always received good.
grades in school; we always did our best to feed, clothe and give you every-.
Perhaps a simple response is best:
"I love you too mom and dad."
to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.
whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.
ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.
erandir,
My response isn't scriptural but more of a common sense type of thing.
I posted this earlier in the thread:
at a wedding anniversary party or between a couple - who gets the gifts and praise. Who gets lauded with memories from the past and questions about how they made it all those years together. who is called a great example for all to follow. THE COUPLE!! not god. final question: who gets the gifts?
the same thing is true of baby showers. who gets the gifts. who sits in front of everyone opening the gifts and passing them around and thanking them for their generosity. THE COUPLE!! not god. final question: who gets the gifts?
Of course, others will probably have a more logical or scriptural discussion but that is my 2 cents.
study edition of the wt will be restricted - it will be as per km
2 things:
1. This will make it easier to eventually roll the witness only WT into the KM thus creating money savings.
2. They're slowly headed toward focusing on tractwork and special campaigns in the field ministry.
specifically christmas appears to be the one holiday to which all others compare.
we either joyfully or sadly recall past christmas holidays.
as i recall, they were controversial in our family even before i was born.. im going to go back a couple of generations in my story to give you a bit of background.
I have children. Thank you for sharing. The feelings you've shared will help many of us heal.
I will definitely keep your deep fear of dying at Armageddon for doing something wrong in the forefront of my mind and help me keep my children from developing that fear (due to their mother being a witness).
i have been a lurker for the last year...finally got the courage to post.
i guess you could say that i have successfully completed a "fade", although that was not my initial intent.
due to my being in an "unscriptural" separation for a number of months, (that, combined with my paranoia, hence, the alias) i have been forced to go underground.
Hi Bourne. I am glad you stopped lurking and started posting.
I liked your first post. You have insight and you are articulate.
It's tough to understand all the feelings and emotions a marital separation (eventual divorce?) may bring but I remember someone telling me that many major changes in life start with one event. Perhaps your marital problems, regardless of how they end, will be the start of many many good things for you.
Good luck.
we've had many jh and minimus threads that start with questions.
we've had loads of "why do you keep doing this?
" and "get a life!
This forum has the power to change a persons life. That is important.
When I found this forum I was scared to death. I read a lot and knew, just knew for sure, that I would never ever never ever post. I read for about 2 years.
I followed the story of Winston Smith and his exit from the Witnesses. This story moved me beyond words. I owe him a debt of gratitude that it would be impossible to repay.
Then I followed the story of IthinkIsee. Again, I owe him a debt of gratitude that is impossible to repay.
I am here, I am free and I am hopeful that what little information I post on my personal situation will help someone the way I've been helped.
Auld Soul, it is great to see you back. I have missed our lengthy telephone calls.
to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.
whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.
ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.
Welcome back AuldSoul. yipeee!
Now, here is what I have said to many people who asked me what was different between birthdays and anniversaries:
"an anniversary celebration is a celebration of the marriage arrangement. Birthdays are a celebration of the individual - as if he/she accomplished something. It is inappropriate to bring honor to an individual for something God accomplished - his birth."
-ok that answer is crap but no one ever challenged me on it. That's because they didn't really want to discuss the matter with me. I sounded crazy and cult-like and they just wanted to get away. Little did I know that one day I'd be here on the other side of the fence.
My simple question now is:
At an anniversary party - who gets the gifts? the couple or God?
At a baby shower - who gets the gifts? the couple/baby or God?
yesterday i called a family on the west coast that were in my congregation 18 years ago.
between parents, kids and marriage partners, there were six of them who had been witnesses.
they have all faded, and have had nothing to do with the witnesses for at least 15 year or more.. yet, none of them is in any way active even in looking at the ex-jw sites online.
I know many individuals who are no longer active. One of them held rather responsible positions in the org. and would have a lot to share with this "community". However, he has no interest in discussing the dubs or his personal thoughts on the matter.
We are all different. I remain active here because I am hopeful my wife will eventually see the light. Until then I want to remain up to date on dub news and goings on. I get no information from my wife. I am always looking to arm myself with theocratic knowledge to weaken the WTBTS hold on my family.
I, and I'm sure many others like me, can only be as active as our fade permits.
