Posts by Bona Dea

49

Do You Consider Yourself A Stronger Person Since Your Eyes Have Opened?

by minimus in

jw
friends

since you've learned the truth about the "truth", do you feel emotionally, mentally and spiritually stronger?

Bona Dea

Hello Dianne (that's my mom's name),

Thank you for the kind words. I really am very glad that I found out about the lies, deceit, corruption that were all going on within the org...especially before I decided to get baptized (husband not even baptized yet; doing it this July). So, I am technically not an "apostate", but I have been involved and followed the witness doctrine for many years (up until Dec 2001). It's just hard for me to throw a party and break into singing "free at last" when my husband is still willfully blind to it all. I hate it more so for my kids (7 and 5). Every day, every conversation is like a battlefield at my home. I want so badly to feel the freedom that everyone here talks about. I want to be able to freely talk to my children, discipline my children, think, believe, breathe, have friends that haven't been hand-picked by him, have an open and loving marriage and be able to converse without arguing or being made into a demon or treated like a complete idiot.

It's like "I" (my thoughts, feelings, opinions about anything) don't matter anymore. He doesn't even try to listen. I talk, he hears, he doesn't listen. He knows I'm not buying into the JW mentality anymore. He gets all defensive when I try to share with him things I've read or learned about the witnesses or their doctrine. I barely get the words formed on my tongue and he starts back at me. He takes it as a personal attack. He doesn't even try to sell me the scriptures, the canned responses anymore...he just starts attacking me (verbally). He has completely given up on winning me back to the witnesses, and he is hitting the children full throttle with the kingdom garb. When I read stories about whole families coming out of the organization together, I feel that twinge of hope and usually a lot of envy...knowing that it just is not ever going to happen for me. He is dead set on going. He knows everything that I know about them...he just doesn't care.

I appreciate the prayers....

Sadie

82

Daughter counselled on dating a wordly guy

by minimus in

jw
friends

my daughter recieved this email from one of her witness "friends".

she is counseling my daughter (indirectly) about her choice to date a "worldly" guy.. hey, so, we had a talk recently that was about love & respect in your marriage.

the brother brought out that this was more for us witnesses rather than worldly people, because it seems that even in the truth now marriage has lost it's correct place.

Bona Dea

I've lost a lot of friends to this type of thing. And I try my best to help them and it doesn't seem to work. And then I kick myself thinking "what else should I have done?"

IF your daughter wants to try and keep this friend, she could use these statements to her advantage. Although I doubt it would work, she could send her friend a ton of scriptures (something that this very "christian" friend used none of to support her nonsense) about loving, forgiving, peace, being uplifting, etc. If your daughter still has a NWT, she could use the index (as I am sure everyone is familiar with) in the back and throw an abundance of loving scripture back in this "friends" face. If your daughter has resolved to break the ties, then if I were her I wouldn't even bother responding. But she could respond with something like this:

Dear Friend,

What else could you have done? Well, you could continue putting conditions on your friendships and continue to "lose your friends to this kind of thing," or you could follow Jesus' counsel at Luke 6:37 where he states, "Moreover, stop judging, and you will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and you will by no means be condemned." Or Paul's advice at 2 Corinth 2:7,8: "...you should kindly forgive and comfort, that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort you to confirm your love for him."

There are many, many more she could add.

Congrats to her!! I hope everything works out well.

Sadie

45

Satisfied with your vehicle?

by JH in

jw
friends

just about everybody has a car and a story they can share.

does your car give you trouble, or would you recommend it to others?.

so, how would you rate your car?.

Bona Dea

JH: Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

49

Do You Consider Yourself A Stronger Person Since Your Eyes Have Opened?

by minimus in

jw
friends

since you've learned the truth about the "truth", do you feel emotionally, mentally and spiritually stronger?

Bona Dea

No, I don't think that I am any stronger in any form or fashion since I left and I am definitely not happier. If anything, I made my home life a living hell when I left. It is next to impossible for me to feel good when my husband is still involved in this and dragging my children down with him. I feel like the black sheep...and it is a crappy feeling. I lost my faith in everything I ever believed.

Sadie

42

JWs and the problem of Creation en toto

by logansrun in

jehovah's witnesses will often scoff with scornful disdain at young earth creationists for believing that the "days" in genesis are literal and that the entire universe is only about 6 to 10 thousand years old.

what about the ages of rocks measured in the millions?

light from stars millions of light years away?

Bona Dea

LOL...same folks, same arguments. Don't you guys ever give up???

Remarkable parallels, Logansrun. Thanks for bringing them to surface.

I don't know why but the song "Rosanna" keeps popping in my head...

Sadie

45

Satisfied with your vehicle?

by JH in

jw
friends

just about everybody has a car and a story they can share.

does your car give you trouble, or would you recommend it to others?.

so, how would you rate your car?.

Bona Dea

Yes, fortunately the pump was covered under warranty. The air is fine by me (actually, it's better than the Expedition but the Exp is a tank and a lot bigger to cool), but all one has to do is look at the long list of flunkie cars I've owned in the past and understand why I would feel this way. The only car that I've owned that has had way cool air was the Grand damn. Even if it did go dead everytime I stopped at a red light, it had some good cold air...

Sadie

45

Satisfied with your vehicle?

by JH in

jw
friends

just about everybody has a car and a story they can share.

does your car give you trouble, or would you recommend it to others?.

so, how would you rate your car?.

Bona Dea

JH:

I have a 2002 Toyota Corolla too. Have luved the car. It is awesome on gas compared to our 1996 Ford Expedition. The only thing that has been wrong with it was we had to have the power steering fluid pump replaced already (really surprised considering we bought it new). We've only had the Expedition for about 2 mos now...but it is so much fun. It is an Eddie Bauer, fully loaded...and huge. The kids love to sit wayyyy back in the back. It only gets 12.8 miles to a gallon though, has well over 100K on it (got it rreeaall cheap), already replaced some shaft (something to do with steering), windshield leaks like a mother when it rains (well, actually we can't figure out where the water is coming in at)...but it's roomy...and did I mention that it is fun to drive?

Had a 1990 Pontiac Grand Am...used to go dead on me everytime it stopped. It also leaked water in the passenger seat floorboard (same place as Expedition). Found out that it was a salvage title when I tried to sell it at a car auction (could been why it was such a piece of crap). Owned a 1990 Ford Taurus. Piece of junk. Every fluid in that car sprang a leak. The right back door wouldn't stay shut (tore up 3 times til we finally just tied it with a rope to the other back passenger door...not a pretty sight). Had two Ford Escorts...pretty decent cars. Had a 1987 Volvo 240GL. Put us on the side of the road twice. Also, leaked water in the passenger side floorboard (what is it with me and these cars?). Parts and labor were expensive. The Volvo was just old when we bought it. I believe it would've been a good car if it were minus 150K (it had over 200K on it when we bought it).

Sadie

20

Watchtower says JW meetings follow the 1st century model

by ozziepost in

modern dub meetings follow the format of the first century christian meetings, or is that vice versa?

subliminal messages reinforce the message found in the watchtower of november 15, 2002. page six shows a picture of st paul's basilica in rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

the facing page (p7) shows an illustration of what is purported to be a meeting of first century christians.

Bona Dea

Methinks it would be beneficial for the JWs to lay down their Watchtower publications with it's distorted and manipulatively twisted quotations of early christian writers and go right to the source of the early christians writers..the early christian writings. They might be a little surprised at what they read there:

Ignatius of Antioch (105-115), Ignatius to the Ephesians

CHAPTER 19
19:1 And hidden from the prince of this world were the virginity of Mary and her child-bearing and
likewise also the death of the Lord -- three mysteries to be cried aloud -- the which were wrought in the
silence of God.

19:2 How then were they made manifest to the ages? A star shone forth in the heaven above all the stars; and its light was unutterable, and its strangeness caused amazement; and all the rest of the constellations with the sun and moon formed themselves into a chorus about the star; but the star itself far outshone them all; and there was perplexity to know whence came this strange appearance which was so unlike them.

19:3 From that time forward every sorcery and every spell was dissolved, the ignorance of wickedness
vanished away, the ancient kingdom was pulled down, when God appeared in the likeness of man unto _newness of_ everlasting _life;_ and that which had been perfected in the counsels of God began to take effect. Thence all things were perturbed, because the abolishing of death was taken in hand.

Polycarp (110-140)

Polycarp 5:2
In like manner deacons should be blameless in the presence of His righteousness, as deacons of God and Christ and not of men; not calumniators, not double-tongued, not lovers of money, temperate in all things, compassionate, diligent, walking according to the truth of the Lord who became a minister (deacon) of all. For if we be well pleasing unto Him in this present world, we shall receive the
future world also, according as He promised us to raise us from the dead, and that if we conduct ourselves worthily of Him we shall also reign with Him, if indeed we have faith.

Polycarp 6:2
If then we entreat the Lord that He would forgive us, we also ought to forgive: for we are before the eyes of our Lord and God, and we must all stand at the judgment-seat of Christ, and each man must
give an account of himself.

Origen (203-250), De Pricipiis:

Secondly, That Jesus Christ Himself, who came (into the world), was born of the Father before all creatures; that, after He had been the servant of the Father in the creation of all things--"For by Him were all things made"--He in the last times, divesting Himself (of His glory), became a man, and was incarnate although God, and while made a man remained the God which He was; that He assumed a body like to our own, differing in this respect only, that it was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit: that this Jesus Christ was truly born, and did truly suffer, and did not endure this death common (to man) in appearance only, but did truly die; that He did truly rise from the dead; and that after His resurrection He conversed with His disciples, and was taken up (into heaven).

Awesome Web site: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Sadie

53

Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?

by Chap in

a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.

i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.

in a book called can christianity be proven?

Bona Dea

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18

Is God out there?

by digderidoo in

i have left the org for many years now.

sometimes i think jehovah is there, sometimes i think there cannot be a god for all the suffering that we see happening in this world.. just lately i have been wondering if god really exists, is the bible his word or is it all just a load of b*****ks.

i have looked into other religions, buddhism for instance, i believe we are spiritual, but is there a need for a god?

Bona Dea

I guess somewhere along the way
He must have let us all out to play
Turned his back and all God's children
Crept out the back door ~ Praying for Time: George Michael

If the God of the bible is real, then Heaven help us. I used to reason that the God of the Bible could not be the God because of the atrocious things he did and the sadistic, misogynistic way that he is. Then I thought of my biological father. I pictured him in deity form...trying to convince a world of his creation that he was perfect, although he knows he isn't...and although it is just a matter of time until his creation figures this out. My father is a abusive drunk. He beat his own parents, my mom, and abused me and my sister. As much as I dislike the things my father has done, nothing can change the fact that he is my father. And just because God did all kinds of horrible things doesn't automatically discharge him from being creator. He could be delusional. What if he is really insane? It wouldn't matter one way or the other whether we liked it or not. We would be stuck with a crazy, sadistic God. And that my friend is really a scary thought!

The links that Greven gave are awesome. But do research everything you can. Chances are you will learn, as most of here have, that the bible can be used as a tool to say anything that anyone wants it to say and, sadly, a clever device used to manipulate the masses - chocked with excuses to control and destroy any opposers. There are many other religions out there, with god's who aren't so unstable. And there is always the option of believing in a higher power, yet not adhering to any particular religion...or not believing in anything at all. Just be sure to make an informed decision, not based on any one person, organization, or group of shared thought. Best of luck...

Sadie