Posts by bonovox

22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

Um. Dung buddy I think youre intentions are probably honorable, but I have to tell ya that Ive read all those books with the exception of the elder's book. I was a pioneer for 2 years, I also had access to the Defending and Legally Establishing book...in addition my step-dad, a great guy, was an elder for most of the 5 years I lived with him and my mom (the fanatical one) so while I never read the elder's book, I got to know a bit about what went on...plus Ive been in about a zillion committee meetings (i was a bad boy frequently) so I know the dealio...

but thanks anyways! :)

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22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

er...damn Dawn, I was 2 years away from baptism in '81!! LOL...

Im having a hard time believing there hasnt been anything more current, like within the last 2 years??

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"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version

2

"Don't Go to Court" - doesn't apply here

by Gopher in

one thing in the jw mindset is that part of 1 corinthians 6 which outlines reasons to settle disputes within the congregation (with the elder's assistance) rather than taking them to court.. 1 corinthians 6:7 is the supporting verse, and it says,it means altogether a defeat for you that you are having lawsuits with one another.

why do you not rather let yourselves be wronged?".

why would this not apply to cases of child molestation?.

bonovox

sorry, this little rant belonged in THIS thread perhaps:

Why is it that when someone is abused, or a parent is told by their child that they were abused, the first persons that they run to is the elders? Just who the hell are they to intercede in criminal matters anyways? I recall being taught that you would want to try to work out a civil or business disagreement within the congregation before going the legal route, but WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CRIMINAL MATTER HERE PEOPLE!!!

Just to follow through on the logic presented in one of the letters, if you saw your brother kill another brother, would you phone Joe Elder, or would you pick up the phone and call 911?

And by the way, what's to prevent a person from putting their hand up during the Watchtower study, being passed the mic, and fully exposing the molester in front of the entire congregation? Sure, you may not get to comment for a long while after that, but after you level the accusation publicly in front of everyone, do you honestly think the entire congregation will rush you out of there with one accord (and I dont mean a Honda, as the old joke went)??? That person would never be able to show their face at the Hall again, and certainly should be booed off the platform if they ever got up to speak. Radical? Yes! Necessary? Absolutely!

Letters to the GB??? Waiting on the decisions of imperfect men?? Call the friking police for crying out loud! They wont hold you to that 'mouth of two witnesses' crap!

Cmon people, use the brain Jehovah gave you!

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"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

9

A Canadian Elder Speaks Out!

by silentlambs in

dear brother bowen:.

i have not yet seen the dateline program.

however, i have set my vct to record it this evening, when i will be at the book study.

bonovox

Ive been away for quite a while, but am I missing something here??

Why is it that when someone is abused, or a parent is told by their child that they were abused, the first persons that they run to is the elders? Just who the hell are they to intercede in criminal matters anyways? I recall being taught that you would want to try to work out a civil or business disagreement within the congregation before going the legal route, but WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CRIMINAL MATTER HERE PEOPLE!!!

Just to follow through on the logic presented in one of the letters, if you saw your brother kill another brother, would you phone Joe Elder, or would you pick up the phone and call 911?

And by the way, what's to prevent a person from putting their hand up during the Watchtower study, being passed the mic, and fully exposing the molester in front of the entire congregation? Sure, you may not get to comment for a long while after that, but after you level the accusation publicly in front of everyone, do you honestly think the entire congregation will rush you out of there with one accord (and I dont mean a Honda, as the old joke went)??? That person would never be able to show their face at the Hall again, and certainly should be booed off the platform if they ever got up to speak. Radical? Yes! Necessary? Absolutely!

Letters to the GB??? Waiting on the decisions of imperfect men?? Call the friking police for crying out loud! They wont hold you to that 'mouth of two witnesses' crap!

Cmon people, use the brain Jehovah gave you!

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"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version

25

Will the Wt Split?

by Satanus in

based on the pressure that is building both within the rank and file and in the top management, i was wondering about the possibility of the wt fracturing into 2 groups: fundamentalist and liberal.

the gb has recently taken a back seat to 3 new corporations.

these were added to the multitude of corps they already have.

bonovox

Ok, lookit. Ive been out for over 10 years, and while gone could not really care less about all that org chart shit. SO stuff as outlined in the posts above *may* have happened, but Im sorry guys, but alot I see above is alot of unsubstantiated conjecture.

Does anyone have ANY links to JW sponsored sites or those JW only forums that people keep talking about? Is there any hard evidence that any of this splittsville talk is true? How come none of the Witnesses I know and am close to know about it? Believe me, some of them are my best friends still and we talk about EVERYTHING, cause they know Im not trying to subvert their faith, just curious thats all...

And just who is this "Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses"??? Ive never heard of em, and neither have any of the Witnesses that I grew up with that still talk to me (yeah the shunning isnt adhered to strictly, believe you me! lol) do either...and btw alot of them are black and from the tristate and Ontario regions...does anybody have any hard facts here?? Im not being sarcastic, I just want to get up to speed, but factually, of course! :)

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22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

Hi Violet, Soledad!

Violet you mentioned the silent lambs issue, this is the child abuse problem, right? I think that the abuse of a child is just the most abhorrent thing on earth, and let me tell you, if ANYONE ever touched my kids, elder, ms, gb, whatever, I wouldnt be waiting for a committee, police, nothing to exact vengeance for that one. Normally Im a pacifist by nature but I'd probably flip out, go to jail and take my chances with Jah at Armageddon for that kind of b.s.

Ok that was over the top, but really, and maybe Ive been away too long, but I've never been able to understand how the parents can be convinced/brainwashed/whatever not to involve the police immediately. As far as I can see, these assholes should never get to the committee stage because the parents of their victims should be making sure they get arrested and put in jail as soon as it happens..like dont these people have a brain of their own? As for the mother who ignores or overlooks her husband abusing their kids, she is a sick woman, just as sick as he is, and the both of them deserve to be locked away - him in jail and her in a mental institution. But to be fair, that crap happens in every religion and walk of life, its seems. Its a psychological issue, to me really not a religious one. But I think that since the Dateline show there is going to be alot less 'forgiving and forgetting' within the ranks. People *must* be smarter than that!

PS...Soledad, are you *sure* you're looking fwd to more from my big mouth?? LOL...

22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

Dungbeetle that was, er, interesting, to say the least...well it should spark *some* conversation anyways...:) Just want to talk about a few things you said (and believe me Im not being sarcastic in my questions!):

>>I am still in the organization, for a little while longer.<<

Do you plan to leave? Why would you prolong the agony, so to speak?

>>I come here becasue there are a tremndous number of JW's still in good standing here,<<

Are there?? Wicked! Will they contribute to a thread like mine where the person has at the outset stated their current 'status' (yuck, or whatever)? I hope so!

>>we cannot speak freely on the so-called 'JW only boards.'<<

What do you mean by that? Are these boards moderated by elders or something? WHich boards do you mean (can you give some linx)? I used to lurk over at JWOnline but then it got closed, do you know anything about that? Was the creator coerced to close it down?

>>Today, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and on and on do not know where they end and their organization begins.<<

I'll agree with that, to an extent, but I think there's good and bad people to be found in just about every religion on the planet.

>>Just becasue a bunch of men in Brooklyn tell your elders who tell you to do something does not make it right, just as in Korah and David and Zedekiah's case.<<

True enough, with the exception of stuff you can read yourself without stretching interpretation too much in the Bible, of course, like dont kill, commit adultry etc...

>>The 'Nuremburg' defense does not work, not then they hung them untill dead dead dead<<

Do you mean 'because our leaders told us to' defense? Well I think that everyone needs to evaluate what theyre being told against Scripture (and not just minute passages but the whole context) and decide for themselves if its true..

>>Jehovah's Witnessess, you were were warned thousands of years ago, to run away from false prophets. You did not listen. God has given you decades to make your escape.

You did not listen.

You were warned.

Now you will pay.<<

Im not sure Im following you here, from what you said at the outset you still are 'in', right? Are you making such an escape? To where? Antoher religion? Im sincerely curious which one, my father was a bitter apostate for many years before becoming a Catholic and it always makes me wonder how you could leave one and go to another that is just so...well never mind...lol..anyways, and what do you predict will happen to them? God's destruction? Isn't that just as extremist as their position? Not that I doubt that there will be some form of judgement, Im just not sure we really know what form it will take...

Good talkin to you bro!

22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

..and now I know why some have locked their email addresses away:

instead of posting something productive on this thread, some person just emailed me privately with their version of a 'welcome', by giving me a link to the following site:

http://www.geocities.com/lucilleb12/JehovahsWitness-Mugs.html

Well Im probably gonna draw alot of heat by saying this, but since this is my thread, I feel no ways about saying just how petty, childish and utterly ridiculous that was. I wont be so mean as to post your name, but DID YOU NOT READ MY POST?? I am NOT interested in such negative foolishness.

One of the reasons I stopped going to meetings was to escape the negativity and intolerance of a small but prominent minority who were ruining the whole experience for me. In the 12 years that followed, I have done everything I can to surround myself with POSITIVITY, not negativity. Let me just state from the outset that it is not welcome in my email inbox, thanks very much.

Well thats enough ranting about *that*...guess I should have mentioned that I am a pretty outspoken and passionate person...lol..

Thanks to everyone else so far for the warm welcome! :)

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"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version

22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

not to get too involved in the whole UTEOTW idea, cause I want to get to some of my questions too, but isn't that an interesting take on the whole Jesus vs. Judas thing? Having seen this live twice, it is interesting the way Bono plays Judas to Edge's Jesus, they do a little duel and in the end Edge wins by beating Bono down with some amazing guitar riffs, in spite of Bono's cries for love love love...

22

Hi I'm new

by bonovox in

jw
friends

ok, so i kinda stumbled onto this site.

i have many questions, but first a bit about myself:.

i was born and raised in the truth.

bonovox

Ok, so I kinda stumbled onto this site. I have many questions, but first a bit about myself:

I was born and raised in the truth. At age 13 I made a silly choice to get baptized. One thing that I've realized since is that I never actually prayed to Jehovah and made a dedication to him. I just did the baptism questions which I passed with flying colors, as I was quite the brainer back then. It was all about acheivement for me tho -could I get to do the mics, run the magazine counter, become a pioneer, etc etc,..I moved out of home at 18 and returned to the big city. And then I discovered girls! I had a huge problem with controlling myself. I was reproved so many times I couldnt even count, and each time Id come crawling back for more. Smoked alot of weed, always wanted the 'worldly hairstyle', the beard, etc etc. In short, I was a rebel. Finally when I was almost 20 I realized that I was living a completely fraudulent double life, so I stopped going to meetings. Then (one) of my current girlfriends (to whom I am now happily married w/2 kids) moved in. Shortly thereafter the elders came by to check up on me. I told them I just wasnt living up to my baptism and I just needed a break from it all. They said 'uh-uh, that's not how it works, you have to write a letter indicating you want to leave'. I was furious, cause the way I saw it I got baptized prematurely and immaturely and just wanted to chill out for a while and work out my own issues myself. So I told them to wait in the hallway, went and got a pen and paper, and scribbled a letter stating I was out. Well alot has happened since then, you know, being considered a DF'd individual and all, the standard family not talking to you etc etc...but Im really not bitter, and Im not here to bitch and moan about my decision or whats happened because of it. I want to get to know some people and find out just what the heck is going on these days...

So if you've got a second to indulge me, a couple of questions:

- is *anyone* on here a Witness? Please be honest.
- if you are, why do you visit a forum like this? I read alot of bitter posters, are you trying to help them? Or are you a doubter yourself?
- what is all this talk about revised stances on DF people? Id love some current info, like from someone who is attending meetings and getting mags, books, whatever...I always thought that one day they'd let parents talk to their kids etc. always found that one very overbearing and hard to deal with..would like some ammo for my first talk with my mom in almost 5 years
- there was a poster I read about called You Know. Dude I'd like to rap with you a bit, I liked your perspective on some topics I read from you...you talk about a change/house cleaning to be effected by Jehovah real soon, what will you do in the meantime? Will you still go to meetings, go in service, etc??

Anyone who is willing to talk about this stuff in a balanced manner please respond...Ive been away for along time but I never considered myself an apostate as I dont flame them or hate them, I just disagree with some of the org stuff and the rules that to me seem to have been man-made...

Please if all youre going to do is say 'JWs are fucking idiots' or comments to that effect please just dont respond, Im not interested in a who hates them more screaming match...ALL WE NEED IS LOVE!!!!

Hope you all can see that this is NOT a troll, just want to get back in touch with people who love Jehovah but maybe not necessarily the org, if you know what I mean.

Oh, and btw, I LOVE U2!!! Their music and vibe has helped me thru all these turbulent years!!

"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version