Posts by Ticker

21

A Religion in Massive Denial ( Wt 8/15)

by metatron in

the latest watchtower contains one of those statements that makes you gasp in astonishment.

in the main study article.

it says that jehovah's witnesses have "been labeled false prophets" - and that they are accused of being out of touch with reality,.

Ticker

In the last days," foretold Peter, "there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: 'Where is this promised presence of his? Why, ... all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning.' " (2 Peter 3:3,4) God's people(buzzword meaning only baptized JW's) are ridiculed as being out of touch with reality.

Why would one be equated as a ridiculer when they were the ones who for many years made the boastful claims of a destruction coming in 1914, 1925, 1975, and the Generation that will not pass away. One who fails to see how these claims had any Godly backing are quickly attacked by the Governing Body as being ridiculers. Much to the contrary, they are merely reflecting on God's word and in their personal reflection they find no where that God could have given support to such fanatical claims as to the coming destruction of the world. They are pronoucing that one must believe false reasoning or they are ridiculing, I am sorry but I cannot see any harmony in this sort of twisted reasoning. It is in effect a reasoning that attempts dispels them from the grave responsiblity of misleading others into past and current false and failed claims.

Though some study the Bible, they do not want to believe what it says.(buzzphrase meaning not accepting Society made doctrines even ones lacking any biblical support) They refuse to accept that Jehovah teaches his people through his faithful and discreet slave class of anointed Christians.

Since when is not accepting doctrines not found in the bible equated with not believing the bible? How can one say that not accpting or believing in a exagerated and invented doctrine coming from men is equal to refusing to accept God? This sort of reasoning makes me shake my head as to how ones can take this as sound and correct. If one cannont accept a teaching that is not found anywhere in the bible such as 607bce, or 1914, 1935, they are accused of refusing to accept God. This is blatantly manipulation tactics put upon thier members and another fist being smashed toword ones who dare expose such false reasonings.

Jehovah spoke to the people through an angel, providing what has come to be known as the Ten Commandments. (Exodus 20:1-17) Hence, there could be no doubt that these laws were from the Almighty.

Exactly, no doubt, it could be proven beyond doubt. Exactly how many of the time dates and doctrines of the Watchtower Society can claim such a status? Thiers unlike God's is everchaning and lacking any credentials as to their correctness. They dishonestly try to give wieght to their argument when in fact they have no proof or backing to their correctness.

Did you know, though, that anointed Christians possess something far more valuable than laws written on stone?

Another problem they teach that only 144,000 literal are annointed while yet flipflopping the interpretaion of this scripture between literal and symbolic. A practice that is dishonest and carries no scholory backing. If one cannont find evidence to support their teaching on the annointed how can one accept that they have anything of value? All they have done is twisted scriptures in an attempt to support an unbiblical teaching of a two tier class or christians. Inserting themselves in place of Christ as mediator, A position they have no right or authority to take.

The Israel of God is made up of spirit-anointed Christians. In time, they were joined by "a great crowd" from all nations who also seek to worship Jehovah. As "one flock" under "one shepherd," both groups embrace "the law of the Christ," allowing it to govern all that they do.

Again a JW doctrine compiled through out of context of scriptures, clear dishonest slanting of reasoning, and a adding of meaning to thoese scriptures that is clearly not their. One only needs to diligently research and cross reference these scriptures to find out that the Society's two tier system lacks any soundness or credential backing. Even being damned by thier own bible translation on this doctrine of theirs.

Ticker

21

A Religion in Massive Denial ( Wt 8/15)

by metatron in

the latest watchtower contains one of those statements that makes you gasp in astonishment.

in the main study article.

it says that jehovah's witnesses have "been labeled false prophets" - and that they are accused of being out of touch with reality,.

Ticker

Here are a few more claiming Apostolic Authority;

Just a note that while the Governing Body rejects the Catholic view of "Apostalic succession" it has self assinged itself apostalic power and authority. It asks its members to view it as if holding a similar position.

Coming from the June 1, 1982 Watchtower on page 17, article entitled "Loyally submitting to Theocratic Order"

*** w82 6/1 17 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***

4 Because of his loyal submission to theocratic rule, even to the death, Jesus was rewarded with immortal heavenly life. Additionally, he was given “all authority . . . in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18) In turn, he entrusted “all his belongings” on earth (earthly interests of his Kingdom) to faithful anointed Christians. These ones Jesus called a “faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Their reward is someday to share heavenly rule with Christ as “priests” and “kings” in his kingdom. (Revelation 14:1, 4; 20:6) Today, a remnant of this ‘faithful slave’ is still alive on earth. Their duties include receiving and passing on to all of Jehovah’s earthly servants spiritual food at the proper time. They occupy a position similar to that of Paul and his colaborers when that apostle said of the wonderful truths God gives to his people: “It is to us God has revealed them through his spirit.” (1 Corinthians 2:9, 10)

Actually if you look at that whole article they are asking everyone to take their word as Gods and dare not question. Here are a few more examples of this reasoning from that very article;

*** w82 6/1 17 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***

As part of doing God’s will, he was very careful to teach God’s thoughts, not his own. “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me,” Jesus said. (John 7:16) What a fine attitude for all of God’s servants to imitate!

Since when is 1874, 1914, 1925, 1935, 1975, 607 bce, blood policies, UN membership, the inability to ask ardent earnest questions to make sure of all things, and many other non biblical based teachings carry the wieght of coming from God? This is a dishonest and very manipulative comment coming straight from the Governing Body, and is in great contrast to the real outlook that God gives in his bible.

*** w82 6/1 16 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***

2 Yet, firmly Jehovah insists on peace and unity on the part of all his devoted children. (1 Corinthians 1:10) And these good results come by God’s servants loyally submitting to theocratic order. What does that mean? Since God’s rulership is called a theocracy (God rule), submitting to theocratic order means being obedient to the laws, rules and principles issuing from God.—Isaiah 33:22.

What good results can be found other then the occasional experience in the awake? Rather we find alienated ones shunned by their former friends, ones who have dies unessesarlly in flip flop teachings(organ transplants, vaccines, blood,etc.), ones who have been imprisoned or killed while yet in another country a whole other contrary practice is allowded(malawi and mexico, alternative sevice), being entangled with the so called wild beast(United Nations), generation of 1914, broken familys, stained relations, even anger and hate toword former members, and the list goes on. Since when have all these ever changing time dated, wishy washy flip flops ever issued from God? But yet one would be forced to accept them with the weight and authority equivelent to God's Word the bible or face excommunication as they have clearly put their own reasoning on the same scale as Gods.

*** w82 6/1 17 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***

5 How vital it is for everyone in God’s family to submit loyally to the teachings and arrangements of the Great Theocrat, Jehovah, and his King-Son, Christ Jesus, as transmitted through the ‘faithful slave’ on earth! Since theocratic order begins with Jehovah himself and extends downward, never would we want to imitate Satan the Devil by becoming independent of theocratic rule. Recall the sorry results that came to Eve when she listened to Satan’s deceptive urging for her not to submit to theocratic order. In effect(buzzword meaning they are assuming and they are adding to the account), he said to her: ‘Be independent of God. Do your own thinking. Decide for yourself what is right and wrong. Then you’ll be like God. You positively will not die.’ (Genesis 3:1-5) That may have sounded appealing, but it was a lie. (John 8:44) When her husband joined her in abandoning submission to theocratic order, they were expelled from the garden of Eden and from God’s family of loyal ones. In time, just as Jehovah had warned, the death sentence(note the dire consequence they attempt to portray befalling thoese who dare question the Governing Body's teachings) was executed on both of them.—Genesis 2:17. 6 Likewise today, any among Jehovah’s people who indulge in independent and contrary teaching imitate, not God, but Satan the Devil. However, Jehovah sees what is happening among his family and takes account. (Proverbs 15:3) He will not tolerate wolflike persons who would devour his sheeplike ones, but at the proper time he takes decisive action. (Matthew 7:15-23) Like a loving father, he protects the spiritual well-being of his family.—Ezekiel 34:11-16.

The problem with this reasoning is while Adam and Eve disobeyed they had disobeyed God, not some manmade reasonings that have added to bible accounts in a feeble attempt to gain authority over fellow christians. They attempt to show Eves independant spirit and in a subconscience manner equate this too any who dare question the Governing Body. Since when is following clear biblical knowledge being independant of God when a Organization attempts to intercept itself into a relationship between God, Christ, and the Christian. When one fails to see the logic in the Societys reasoning and failed time dates, and even showing clear biblical reasoning that is evident the Society is in error, they in effect are asking that one put aside God's word and rather accept man's reasoning or a Societys reasoning as more authoritive. They have basically made the bible innefective and powerless against their human reasoning. They even go as far as making threats of eternal damnnation upon ones who would dare question, then they further attack such ones as being wolf like. Who really is wolf like when such a situation arrises? When one has serious inquiries as to the reasoning of certian shaky teachings is one met with a loving responce? Rather I think they need to correctly place the wolf like charactor where it is most fitting, that being applied not to ones with sincere question but rather to themselves, as they demonstrate on a continuous basis. I cannot fathom how so many people can swallow this type of reasoning and not see the clear contrast with the message found in God's word.

I may hope these quotes help and if any feel need to clarify upon them please do so as I have not alot of time this morning to reflect fully upon them.

Ticker

21

A Religion in Massive Denial ( Wt 8/15)

by metatron in

the latest watchtower contains one of those statements that makes you gasp in astonishment.

in the main study article.

it says that jehovah's witnesses have "been labeled false prophets" - and that they are accused of being out of touch with reality,.

Ticker

We know that in all fairness the Governing Body claims from time to time, that they are not phrophets and they are merely men and make mistakes. This admission usually follows a blatant and embaressing failure of some englossed speculation that proved false. But do they clearly not claim the role of a phrophet or do they like to ride the fence, hence double standard example 2. They have their followers believing two contrasting beliefs at once. Another clear form of thought control and a treadmill of insanity.

Now as to their brief mentions of never claiming to be infalliable and being imperfect, well in reality the actual practice is very different and contrasting form their claims of being imperfect and prone to error. One quickly realizes that this rule only applies to past failed predictions and changed doctrines, and not to current Watchtower teachings. Witnesses are to view current teachings as though they were infallible and above honest questioning. Even though they have admitted error, it has still not humbled their approach in that pherhaps their current teachings could also suffer from human error due to imperfection. To the contrary they hold the stance that "you should accept everything published as absolute truth until such time we may tell you it isn't."

They claim to be imperfect on one note and yet boast these claims found in the Watchtower.

*** w64 6/15 365 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***

22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it.

I would also like to note the 1971 "The Nations Shall Know that I Am Jehovah" Pg. 292,

" 36 None of us should want to be like these indecicive, unresponding ones! Better it is to know now, rather than too late, that there is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us, and to accept and act upon the Bible message, "not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God"(1 Thessalonians 2:13) Concerning the message faithfully delivered by the Ezekiel class Jehovah positively states that it "must come true." He asseverates that those who wait undecided until it does "come true" will also have to know that a prophet himself had proved to be in the midst of them." (Ezekiel 33:33) Such belated knowledge, however, will not mean salvation for them, for it will find their hearts and their ways to be unchanged.

37 What is to be gained by hesitating and doubting to the end that Jehovah can raise up and has raised up a genuine "prophet" within our generation? Certainly it will gain for no one the divine favor and protection needed during the speedily approaching "great tribuation" upon Christendom and the rest of Babylon the Great."

Many more examples as these ones are among only a few cited in ISOCF. Any witness who can not say thier is a real dishonesty and a clear double think standard, is either totally oblivious to the fact or is in complete self denial.

21

A Religion in Massive Denial ( Wt 8/15)

by metatron in

the latest watchtower contains one of those statements that makes you gasp in astonishment.

in the main study article.

it says that jehovah's witnesses have "been labeled false prophets" - and that they are accused of being out of touch with reality,.

Ticker

reaching back into the JW-mindset that I grew up with, their response to that would be "no, we`re not prophets, we just interpret the Bible, and there`s no rule against that in the Bible..." ...but the problem is that they actually in several issues of their publications claim to be Gods prophet on earth, that God is using them as their "channel"

I have put thoese quotes up minimus in another thread about a week ago on this very subject about their claiming to be phrophets. I will put some of thoese same qoutes on here and maybe tonight after work i'll list even more.

Ticker

30

The next cover-up or scandal?

by kwintestal in

my personal thoughts are this.

with the population aging and with jw's becomming incresingly poor, there will be a lot more elder abuse, and i don't mean congregation elders, but elderly people.. does anyone know of this taking place in the congregations?.

kwin

Ticker

They didn't have kids, due to WTS pressure, now they've got very little family; they didn't have retirement plans, thank to WTS pressure, and now they have very little money.

Exactly, hit the nail on the head. Most elderly people have family to care for them, but ones who followed the Watchtowers councel do not. I remember Ray saying in his book how this was a very hard feeling for him and his wife due to them not having children. They are both up in years and his wifes health is not the best, and no children to help with thier needs due to the Watchtower's repeated message of not bearing children in this time of the end. It was sad when I read that, but yet its sadder because that is only one case out of probably many.

Ticker

30

The next cover-up or scandal?

by kwintestal in

my personal thoughts are this.

with the population aging and with jw's becomming incresingly poor, there will be a lot more elder abuse, and i don't mean congregation elders, but elderly people.. does anyone know of this taking place in the congregations?.

kwin

Ticker

Even though this might not legally be elder abuse, I think it's just as bad.They sure aren't being too "god-like".

I second this thought, what happened to caring for the elderly, or showing proper respect for your parents. Just another double speak standard that looks good in print but is far from the norm in practice. Not that their are not ones that do care for the elderly but the majority are far to occupied with other congregational activities to even take note of these ones. They become just a familar face at the meeting and might get the occasional quick hello as ones pass them by to go talk to their click of friends after the meeting.

Ticker

37

Inactive ones - new light.

by unique1 in

i didn't go to the district convention this year.

my mom however did and she sends out a daily text email every day.

she asked all members of the email group to share their favorite part of the convention.

Ticker

eeeeks! Sorry bout the double post, my connection is not always the best and it went stale on me and I hit post again but I guess it did post both of them.

Ticker

37

Inactive ones - new light.

by unique1 in

i didn't go to the district convention this year.

my mom however did and she sends out a daily text email every day.

she asked all members of the email group to share their favorite part of the convention.

Ticker

talk about how we should treat inactive ones. That the talk wen over how all witness should be extra kind to inactive ones in hopes of drawing them back.

5 years+ still counting, still no kindness. Suppose I have that "innactive apostate state of mind".

Ticker

37

Inactive ones - new light.

by unique1 in

i didn't go to the district convention this year.

my mom however did and she sends out a daily text email every day.

she asked all members of the email group to share their favorite part of the convention.

Ticker

talk about how we should treat inactive ones. That the talk wen over how all witness should be extra kind to inactive ones in hopes of drawing them back.

5 years+ still counting, still no kindness. Suppose I have that "innactive apostate state of mind".

Ticker

30

The next cover-up or scandal?

by kwintestal in

my personal thoughts are this.

with the population aging and with jw's becomming incresingly poor, there will be a lot more elder abuse, and i don't mean congregation elders, but elderly people.. does anyone know of this taking place in the congregations?.

kwin

Ticker

The closest to senior abuse that I have personally witnessed is a couple that had the wifes elderly mother come and stay with them for awhile. Of course she had to pay her share and they even pushed her into the religion which was new to her and she didnt fully understand. She began to develop dementia though and suffered from what I believe was palsy by the symptons she showed. Of course this was a no no and an embaressment to the PO and his wife, so she was shipped off to live with her other "worldly" daughter. All of a sudden the meetings that had been so important and the fellowship she had was stripped from her as she was becoming a burden. I could never see the justification or love in this experience. Even further this couple couldn't be bothered with the burden of picking up the elderly mother to bring her to any meetings. In effect she castigated to the wayside just like so many others.

Ticker