Posts by borgfree

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

I do not know if you are an ex-jw or not but, if you have any bible training, I think you already know the answer to the why do people like Hitler exist in the first place, question. It is something like this, God created a paradise, put perfect man in it, man rebelled against God and decided he could break God's rules, God said, ok lets see how YOUR way works out. There must have been a given amount of time for man to try his own way.

Why did God make certain groups? I don't think I can answer that very well, I can guess. Maybe it was an example for us as to what God can and will do if we choose His way.

Human emotions leading to war? back to eden and the rebellion.

I do not consider my faith blind. Even as a teenager I considered evolution etc. I was an agnostic for a short time as a teenager. On another thread I quoted from Romans 1:19-22. That scripture says that creation itself testifies to a Creator. I believe that it does, whether or not we try to understand the mind of a Creator, that we can never understand, simply because if we could, we would be like Him.

I don't want you to think I am being rude, but I must now get ready for work, so if there is some reply you would like from me I will have to reply when I get home tonight. Have a beautiful day.

Borgfree

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

borgfree

Hi Julie,

Thanks for your answer. I wish I could answer better. I just do not believe God to be the horrible One that some do. The bible says that He created ALL things that would include laughter, joy, happiness, flowers, bear cubs, sex, and the bible says that God IS love.

I know all the accusations against Him and I wish I had a Godly answer. I can only try to think from Gods point of view, an impossibility, but just a couple of things. Suppose you had the power of God and you decided to build a nation of people who would be YOUR people, blessed as no other nation was ever blessed. In the area you chose to settle your people were a nation led by Adolph Hitler, Edie Amin (sorry for the spelling) Gingis Khan, Alexander the Great, and a few more like those.

You know in your wisdom that those nations would be a constant source of evil toward your nation. What would you do?

God did not order the torture of those people, he ordered their complete destruction. At least SOME of those people were committing horrors far worse that death. They were sacrificing their OWN children to a god in fires, burning their children in flames.

The same God who ordered the destruction of those evil people also has complete control of life, death, pain, suffering, etc. He can restore life, He can end suffering.

The writings in the old testament are hard to understand, the God who took on human form in the new testament did only good while He was on earth. Such a God could not create something He Himself does not possess, like compassion, mercy, joy, tenderness, etc.

Again, I look at our earth, the countless life forms, the endless vegetation, the sea with all of its variety. Then the vast universe with creations we cannot even imagine. I believe in THAT God, but, He is the same one who ordered the destruction of nations, how do we square that? Someone has a far better answer than I.

Do we hold our own governments to that kind of standard? In world War II, do we think Harry Truman was a monster for ending the war with a horrible bomb? Every time there is some kind of a war innocent people are brutalized. I think most people think that is ok, after all it had to be done to END evil.

We simply cannot understand all of the details of God's decisions. We can only have faith in a God Who has shown us such extreme love in other areas. I do.

Borgfree

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

borgfree

Julie,

I really do not feel qualified to respond to your post. I know there are so many with abilities far better than mine, but I am not ashamed to be a Christian and so I will put my 1 1/2 cents in. I was taught from the earliest day I can remember that I did not need the education from school, armageddon was just around the corner and I would be taught everything I need to know in the New System. (New World back then) I also believed that, and did not apply myself to getting all the education that I could have. It shows.

With that disclaimer I would say that I have arrived at some conclusions and have remained Christian. I do not know why God ordered the killing of men, women and children, including infants. I have been taught reasons 'why' some of those reasons make sense to me, some not so much sense.

I could repeat my statements above about a lot of 'why did God' do this or that. As humans we are faced with some realities. If God exists, we can question all we want, we can accuse Him all we want, etc. But if He exists then what? Do we say, 'ok God I will not believe in you, I will believe that you do not exist!' Does that change the outcome? Wouldn't that way of thinking just punish ourselves.

For my reasons, by research, and much bible reading I believe in the God of the bible. I believe that I cannot understand some things that He does, but I believe He has asked us to have faith for a few short years of our life and be obedient to Him and He will give us an eternity of blessings we cannot even imagine.

I could make comparisons of how we punish our children etc. but so can you, we all have. I believe that whatever terrible things we may blame God for, that one day we will have facts that will give us the ability to really judge whether God is a God of love or not. Even with all of the bad someone might accuse Him of, I see the love He has shown to us, even sacrificing His own Son, for us.

He is there. Whether we want to acknowledge Him or not is our business, you can deny a hurricane and say it does not exist but when it hits your area you will get the same effect.

Thanks for letting me have my 1 1/2 cents worth, at best.

Borgfree

5

So Who's Going to WNFJ?

by NeonMadman in

jw
friends

-just curious who's going to be at the witnesses now for jesus conference in pennsylvania come october 19-22. i'm definitely going to be there, and i'd love to run into lots of you good folks.... the program has been posted at http://pfo.org

borgfree

Hi Neonmadman,

I plan to be there. If I make it it will be my 9th year. Also my son just left the Borg a few months ago and plans to be there also.

Borgfree

51

I think I did it!

by freeman in

jw
friends

i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.

i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.

) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.

borgfree

BTW Freeman,

I forgot to thank you for posting your letter. I think it has some very good points. I do not know if you want it used or not but with your permission I will print it and give it to JW family members (there is one or two who would accept it)Thanks again.

Borgfree

51

I think I did it!

by freeman in

jw
friends

i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.

i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.

) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.

borgfree

the wiz,

I think most, if not all of us on this board, love Jehovah's Witnesses. That is why most of us spend so much time trying to open their eyes to the truth.

Speaking for myself, I despise the Watchtower Society, why?

They are the real apostates, they deny the God of the bible and have made a new god for themselves to worship.

They are false prophets. They have prophesied falsely over all of the years of their existence. Check it out.

They blaspheme the True God. They claim to be Gods only channel of communication to mankind. They have lied, prophesied falsely, slandered God and men, they practice hatred, etc., etc.

They have, by their "divine rulings" caused uncountable deaths, injuries, and lifelong disabilities, etc., etc.

The WT is either what they claim to be or they are not. By their own history and their own paper trail they have plainly shown that they are not what they claim to be.

What then is our obligation concerning the Watchtower Society? Should we love it or hate it? We must all decide for ourselves. I have chosen the latter. I cannot feel good about such an organization that does so much harm to people by separating families and all of the other harmful things they practice. AND..when They are CAUGHT they blame GOD for THEIR wrongs. Detestable!!

Borgfree

51

I think I did it!

by freeman in

jw
friends

i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.

i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.

) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.

borgfree

As I drove to work (where I am now) I kept remembering something Dmouse said -

It still bothers me. Isn't it supposed to be Gods rules that we are concerned with?

Borgfree

51

I think I did it!

by freeman in

jw
friends

i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.

i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.

) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.

borgfree

Detective

I agree with your comments. when I read

I immediately thought about a time when I was disfellowshipped. It involved a divorce and some other problems. When I was reinstated I had an occasion to talk to an elders son. During our conversation he said "I do not know what happened, and I do not want to know, but......" What that meant to me was "I already know the other side of the story, I choose to believe that side, and I do not care to know any other information"

I was not offering the other side by the way but I guess he was just trying to let me know that he was satisfied with what he already knew.

Borgfree

51

I think I did it!

by freeman in

jw
friends

i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.

i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.

) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.

borgfree

Hi Freeman,

I think you did the right thing! I have heard the latest tactic of the WT is to say you have DA'ed yourself by your actions/words. Thats what they did to one of my sons-in-law.

I congratulate you.

If you don't mind sharing it, I would really appreciate a copy of your paper. Most of my family are still in the Borg. Who knows what might open their eyes.

Borgfree

536

LET'S MAKE A LITTLE WAGER

by You Know in

jw
friends

perhaps you recall the instance in the bible where samson made a wager with the philistines that they couldnt guess his riddle.

as it turned out they wheedled the answer out of him by his fiancee, but the point is that they had a wager.

since the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that we are not living in the last days of this system of things, and that this world is not facing anything remotely like the biblical apocalypse, at least not any time soon, in the spirit of such antagonism, i would like to propose a similar wager.

borgfree

Ballistic,
I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. Are you trying to say that the US is NOT the center of the world?
Borgfree