All you have to do is show how subjective and illogical sola scriptura is and you've already run circles around them by the end.
the_classicist
JoinedPosts by the_classicist
-
14
How many people have you "unwitnessed" since you've been out?
by mkr32208 ini was thinking about this the other day.
in 25 (ish) years of being a witness... well i guess i became a publisher at like 12 or 13 so actually only 13 (ish) years of service... (i could be a doctor in less time... ugggg) i went out in service lets say an average of ten hours a month... so were talking 120 hrs a year lets call it 1500 total hours.
in that time i brought no one into the truth!
-
-
-
27
THE BIBLE ITSELF the rotten foundation of Watchtower theology
by Terry in(below continues an idea started in another post).
just consider the difference in meaning between these two renderings.
1.all scripture is inspired by god and useful for teaching, reproving and setting things straight.
-
-
the_classicist
Terry, you haven't considered what I've said, unless you feel it's invalid. Can you do what I've asked? Or do you wish to keep to your own idelogical world view?
-
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
Class....just as you have put an artificial judgement on other species in which to eat. You have put an artificial judgement on your own superiority. I find the killing of innocent animals for food rather distasteful and inhumane. Yet I will not infringe on your right to choose otherwise.
I have the argument from human nature both for eating animals and for not killing one's young, which is not an artifical pontification, but a biological reality.
I will also not infringe on your right to decline any medical procedure or treatment you do not agree with.
Stem cells are only experimental in their medical usage. I would gladly use stem cells for treatment if they didn't cause a human life. And scientifically, they don't have to take a life and I would gladly pay more for the extra work it would cost scientists to prepare a treatment that doesn't.
But you see Class.... folks like you are trying to push YOUR PHILOSOPHY and value judgements down my throat. You are trying to stop me from excercising my rights as to what I use as MY value judgements for my own medical care and those I seek to offer my patients.
Ah, here's the problem with today's left wing (I'm talking left wing in social matter such as these, I'm left in economic and other social matters as well): stating my opinion is not considered valid and by stating my opinion I'm somehow pushing my "value judgements down [your] throat." I would not stop you from using stem cells, but using stem cells at the cost of human life is immoral.
Using rabid to describe anti abortionists was not meant to offend you. I'm sorry if it offended you and retract it. Rabid according to Websters means: b : going to extreme lengths in expressing or pursuing a feeling, interest, or opinion. I feel/felt anti abortionist go to extreme lengths. Maybe it's a matter of semantics.
The OED defines rabid as "Furious, raging; madly violent..." I know that you're a good person, though, so I take no offence and I hope I've caused no offence to you either. And I must say, I do prefer "pro/anti abortion" instead of that "pro choice/pro life" crap.
Talk to someone with degenerative nerve damage about how they should respect the dignity of life while they are slowly becoming shells of their former self day by day losing all their supposed humanity. It's heart wrenching.
Certainly is, but we should not use pity as an excuse to end human life and it's not a rational statement either. It is biologically programmed in any animal to prolong one's life as long as possible, but, in terms of human treatment, that doesn't mean we should treat if all we're doing is to delay death rather than produce a meaningful length to one's life.
Before you claim that the science behind these claims are hyped perhaps you should investigate some of them. I remember back in 1986 when popular newsrags said that HIV/AIDS would be untreatable.....that until we could harness genetics and change eye color HIV/AIDS would never be treatable. WRONG!
It's possibly that the claims are hyped, or that they won't work so well in practice, but, as you correctly point out, this does not mean that they definitely are hyped. It's like a news story I watched a few days ago wherein they stated that they've "cured" HIV. Well, according to the independent scientist they interviewed, the researcher who made that claim did so prematurely and with hype. There's much politics when fundings involved on both sides.
-
11
I use Firefox for this site -- why don't the hyperlinks work!!!
by inquirer ini've never really complained about this before.
i hope simon will answer me... but now it's starting to really get on my nerves!
everytime i reply to someone and i want to use a web link... eg www.yahoo.com ... it doesn't come up properly!
-
-
the_classicist
It has something to do with Java and the test worked.
-
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
you still do not understand the science. How many times does the point have to be made that these embryos that we are discussing are NON-viable. They were given every chance to develop but for a variety of reasons, they will NEVER make it. They are not a human at this point, but a mass of half-a-dozen progenetor cells.
I know that, I'm not an idiot. What I'm saying is that it's unethical to procure them in the first place: to create life in order to destroy it.
Now, your assertion that even bacteria "hurt", or feel pain. ; That is just nonsense. ; Pain is a sensation generated by nerve cells, transmitted electrically through a nervous system to a central processing unit (brain), where the entity's brain process these electrical impulses as "pain" stimulus. ; Now, six identical cells CANNOT feel, sense, comprehend, or experience pain.
You didn't even read what I've said throughout this thread. Please stop setting up a strawman.
Please, before you start spouting your moral superiority, try and do a little research, so that you don't sound so ill informed and insensitive.
I've a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. I'm no expert, though. -
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
Class....you are surely going to tell me you are either vegan or vegetarian are you not? Surely a higher form of life such as an octupus, cow, or pig shouldn't be sacrificed on the alter of the BBQ grill should it?
No, I am not, which is what you were expecting anyway. Humanity is the highest form of life (well, you might include dolphins: so long and thanks for the fish). From the biological perspective, it is illogical for humans to kill their own young, but it is quite natural for us to kill other life forms for sustinence.
What about all those pesky embryos that don't attach properly to the uterine wall? Not viable eh? If it is life should it not be able to fend for itself somehow? You assign artificial values to when, how, where life begins.
Human life begins at conception, when the lifeform has 48 chromosomes. My knowlege of biology is more limited than yours, but I assume that if it doesn't attach to the uterine wall, it will not survive, right? That's nature, but it is not natural to procure abortion or purposely kill your own kind out of selfish reasons.
I was not insulting you by calling you a man was I? I said it was funny how the most rabid anti-abortionist were men. How is that an insult? It was an observation. Quite an astute one I might add.
I would consider "rabid" an insult, it attributes a negative quality to myself which is not true. It's like pulling an ISP and calling you a pedophile b/c you're gay. But both you and I know that's not true.
Are you swearing an oath to never, ever use a procedure or treatment that utilizes embryonic stem cell research? Can you make that vow?
Again, the research is indirect, but I would not use embryonic stem cells as that would directly be infringing on another's right to life. They can get stem cells from other place, you know. -
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
well, i've provided the biological basis for my morality on the issue. ; now please do the same.
I did and I shall,
you cannot prove the potential of a clump of cells. ; that is illogical.
Yes, a simple clump of cells has no potential to become a human being, but an embryo does. That is the difference. It is certainly not self-sustaining as of yet, but neither are new born children, are they?
the problem i have religious people, is that their stand on abortion and stem cells are based on their religious views, which mean nothing biologically. ; so what i say is not a red herring. ; to say that we are special and different for religious reasons, is the same as asserting that we were created special.
I have provided a biological basis and if you look through the thread you'll see I've never argued from a religious stand point (strawman for you). You're arguing irrationally by not taking into consideration the philosophical implications of this entire matter. And, yes, tetrapod, philosophy and science are very compatible and one flows from the other. -
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
I do not see the ethical stand you take. It's a moral judgement you make. An artificial parameter. It's one thing to sit in an ivory tower on your golden throne pontificating to the masses on the nobility of poverty. There are many cures, procedures, and treatments that were developed under "questionable" ethics. Again I challenge you that under duress you may just change your stance. While my statements are non-PC I assure you when it comes down to "brass tacks" you'd be surprised how you can see quite clearly past so-called ethical challenges.
I daresay that it's not an artificial judgement. An embryo has 48 chromosomes and is a human life that will grow into a fully-formed human being. Sperm is not a human life as there are only 14 chromosomes and it can't, by itself, turn into a fully-formed human being without an ovum.
It's one thing to sit in an ivory tower to pontificate from your golden throne about how it is morally acceptable to take another's life in order to benefit your own.
Yes, many cures, procedures, and treatments were developed under "questionable ethics," and we do not reject them. But, those indirectly caused the harm of others. Using embryonic stem cell is directly harming another's human life.
I think your statements are quite politically correct given our society's devaluation of human life. -
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
of course i would mind. what a cruel murderous thing to say! i'm special, remember?!
Well, yes, you are special. You are a unique unit of humanity. Society protects your life for the greater benefit of the human race. Embryos are still a unique unit of humanity, not fully formed, but they have full potential and it is wrong to inhibit that for our own selfish gain.
-
112
Stem Cell Research article
by DevonMcBride inin today's wall street journal there was an excellent article about stem cell research.
the united states used to be number 1 in science research.
we are now number 2 and continually on the decline even more.
-
-
the_classicist
well, actually, you don't have a choice. you have to kill other living things to survive. why would a loving god make a world like that? heartless and cruel to all organisms?
you may not care about bacterium but it still makes you (and i) a cold heartless MURDERER!
Really, if everyone feels like twisting my words to prove their own illogical, emotional arguments, I should clarify them. The point I was trying to make was that it does not matter what you are killing can feel pain or not, you are still killing it. Humans do not value the life of bacteria and they are quite ephemeral in comparison to us, but a human life is different, not only from the philosophical prospective, but from an evolutionary one.