Posts by SeeSee

7

Small Town Witness Needs Our Help

by horrible life in

jw
friends

you big city people, have your big, high class newspapers.

you small town uppity people have your little local goody-two shoe articles, in your papers.

but my town, has heart.

SeeSee

Did anyone recognize the last line in his ad? "Keep coming back. It works if you work at it"? Are slogans used in the 'Anonymous' 12-Step programs. Reading that made me wonder if he thinks he's making amends by by doing this. Or do you suppose it's meant to WOW the judge with how much he's changed? Whatever, Mr. Derby's thinking--as displayed in that ad--sure doesn't inspire confidence in his sobriety. See See

46

i told my mother that i do not desire to be associated with jws anymore and

by drunkenpikachu in

she totally flipped out.

all i was trying to do was find some mutual respect for my decision but she started smacking, punching, pushing me.

soon after, she threw the biggest tantrum and it disgusted me to see her acting in such a manner.

SeeSee

Your mother has more problems that the one which you just presented to her. Be kind. Life is long and you too will no doubt do at least a few things you'll regret as much as she may one day regret this event.

An act of kindness may be forgotten, but it will never be regretted.

Read and reread, meditate on The Desiderata (find it on the web). It will give you peace and guidance in tumultuous times. I especially like the lines

"As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...

be gentle with yourself, you are a child of the universe...

and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."

See See

26

when you were babtized and dedicated did you feel a void?

by swiftbreeze in

this has always troubled me:.

i was studying to be babtized although i was raised around the "truth" i still had to have an official study.

so i was taught that i had to go to jehovah in prayer stating my desire to be dedicated and babtized.

SeeSee

I was baptized at 9, because they'd told me that "if you've lrstnrf about Jehovah [from us] and don't get baptized, he will KILL YOU (at Armageddon). I had no death wish, so I went to my baptism -- in a white-knuckle fury that I'd ever heard of Him, or them -- and hoping to make the best of deal by getting in some swim time. Ha! My mother was so proud of me that day, bragging about it, and getting congratulated by others. (Afterall, having such a young child dedicate her life to serving Jehovah made her look better than other mothers, and since to Witnesses nothing matters more than the appearance of doing good so she was in her glory.) Heck, I didn't even know the meaning of "dedication".

As I grew up "in the truth" the pressured to do all they required seemed relentless. The control exercised by my mother and the "brothers" in God's name was sufficating. I really did try hard to be a "good Witness", even when I didn't get what they were saying or doing.

I used to pray -- without any visible results -- for my perceived needs, until a Watchtower study
"admonishing" (that word still gag's me) that we should only to pray for God's Kingdom to come. (Maybe I zoned out on the rest of the study and there really were things we were allowed to ask for besides His will and The Organization.) So, figuring that God had been taking care of that stuff without my help; and now knowing that He didn't want to be bothered with my personal problems, I quit praying, and tried to figure life out on my own. (Pretty dangerous undertaking for a teenager.) I lived in a perpetual state of discontent all the years I was associated with them.

I hated standing on street corners (yes, dear, we really had to do this) with the Watchtower, and only stopped when some pervert asked me "what else was for sale", and I wanted to slug his sorry face. I got fat going from door to door, 'cause we spent so much time at the coffee shop trying to keep warm or cool off. I learned (from others) that if you offered someone a magazine on the way to the fieldservice, you could count your time from then until you got home doing the same thing. This meant that all the time at the meeting and the time it took to get to and from the territory counted too. Yea!

That's my story - See See

30

Elders Wives

by Octavia in

jw
friends

ever wonder how some of those brothers wrote such elloquent talks?

i just found out ( puternut told me) their wives wrote them for them.

that must be why they always clapped so loud for their husbands!

SeeSee

I like that thought.

But at least in my day, every Public Address came as a preprinted outline (with every scripture they wanted used to support the topic), and sent out to the congregations from Brooklyn HQ for distribution to those men the elders selected to give "talks". Some speakers were definitely better than others, but no one was alowed to make up their own lecture.

It would be interesting to know how The Society keeps control of the content of the PA's today..

7

saga continues

by starcrossedpimp in

it's me again- the pathetic one trying to hold on to my jw girlfriend or "ex" i guess.

we haven't spoken in a few days because of course her parents know where i live and they have her cell phone tracked on the internet.

she came into the store at which we both work today with one of her old friends who was visiting from another state.

SeeSee

Has it ever ocurred to you that she's using "them" as a way to make an "exit" from your relationship? This would not be foreign to a young woman experienced at lying (as she has done with her parents, and to the congregation when she was sneaking around with you)!

26

I have finally decided to do it.

by jt stumbler in

i have finally decided that i've seen enough.

i have written my official dissassociation letter from the organization call "jehovah's witnesses".

would someone please give me the address and example of a letter head to the society.

SeeSee

Not to worry. You don't need to send it to the head of the "Society". Your letter to the local congregation will be recorded on special forms provided by WTBTS and kept permanently at the Kingdom Hall. The Elders are required to forward those forms to Brooklyn HQ where they are kept forever!

By the way - you do not owe them an explanation. In fact if you go into detail about why you are disassociating it better make you feel real good--cause it won't serve you in any other way. (They'll be looking for something specific to disfellowship you over.)

God bless

17

Definition of an "Apostate"?

by upside/down in

what are the ancient words translated into english "apostate", from da bible?

and what are their actual definitions and compare this to the wts definitions?

i'm sure there will be some discrepencies.

SeeSee

Thought provoking...I looked "apostate" up, etymology and all. It is such a nasty sounding word, recalling the stench of the "Inquisitors" burning non-Catholics at the stake - to "keep Spain pure" in The Faith. Outside of the religious realm it is nothing more than "renegade" or "defector" one who has left a religion, political party or cause.

Hooray!: I am a "defector"!

Like in the old Soviet system...which when you think of it, operated the same way as the "Organization":
* Centralized leadership;
* control of every aspect of members lives
* a priveleged class in leadership,
* heavy penalties for those who questioned its authority,
* a KGB-like spy network, with
* neither constitutional protections for members,
* nor limits of the power its leaders who act as judge, jury & executioner over members

Also, like the Soviet Union, many people wanted to defect, but stayed out of fear of what would happen to their family.

Doesn't this sound familiar?

9

What happens after ...

by Blue_Shadow in

what happens after you have learned the orgins of certain holidays, do you continue to avoid them or celebrate them?

how about religion change,now that you leave the "truth" what religion do you seek?

it seems mind doubting to think about celebrating holidays you've avioded all your life.. .

SeeSee

Celebrate this: You have a choice! No one can tell you whether or not to celebrate a certain holiday unless it is in the Bible.

The bible is full of celebrations - including feasts comanded by God to be observed forever. Jesus celebrated these holidays, and it is recorded that he was in Jersusalem during the "winter holiday". (The only Jewish holiday celebrated in the winter is Hannukah!) The scriptures don't say he was there to celebrate it, he certainly was there during the celebration.

As this:

If it is wrong to celebrate certain holidays because the pagans did it; then wouldn't it right to celebrate the holidays that Jesus did?

You know Jesus celebrated the Passover. In fact, the "memorial" supper was actually a Jewish Seder. The wine was Passover wine. The bread that he broke, was Matzo. (bread with leavening is soft and tears, but matzo - the only bread allowed in Jerusalem during the 8 days of Passover - cracks and "breaks".) Then there is Queen Ester's celebrationm, Purim. And David danced in celebration of Simcha Torah. Why, God's own angels came in celebration of Jesus birth!

My JW family would never celebrate birthday's because they said it was pagan and Herod cut off the head of John the Baptist as a birthday gift." Does the horror of that dreadful man (isn't he the same one who'd ordered all the baby boys in Bethlehem murdered in an attempt to kill his competition - "the King of the Jews") awful act mean that no one should ever celebrate the joy of having one they love with them for another year? Is there any difference between that and the currently Witness-approved keeping of wedding anniversaries?

Have you ever thought "What true man of God would dare to use the Lord's name to say Christians should have no celebations?" And "Who would dare to stand before the Almighty to say that "He who changes not" has changed His mind about His feasts being kept forever. If one believed those men, one would also have to dobt Jehvah's keeping his promises for say, a new heavens and a new earth.

Trust God. Don't trust them. Don't trust me either. Examine the scriptures about this for yourself. Don't read books about what the Bible says. Read the word. The only way to prove God right, and every man a liar - by HIS WORD alone.

Be joyful, SeeSee

14

problems with JW girlfriend and her family

by starcrossedpimp in

i'll make this short, but i've been looking for answers and need actual human communication- not just a book or website.. up until 12/26/04, my "girlfriend" and i had been sneaking around to see each other.

we became professionals.

she would always say "i shouldn't be doing this" and such, but eventually that mindset wore away and our love took over.

SeeSee

Hi...I'm a newbie at this site, but well experienced with JWs. I was raised one, and actually went through what she is going through right now. I loved a young man (a lifetime ago) who wasn't a JW, and when my family found out about it I got called before the Elders of the Congregation (who have the power to excommunicate) for being disobedient (we had not been sexual or that would have happened). He was horrified by what was happening to me, and for the ultimatim to him. More wise than I was at the time, he chose to leave me and my sick family to our religion. He did right.

There could be nothing but misery for either of us. I'd be shunned by my "friends", my (cough, cough) loving family, and the only religion I'd ever known. I'd have lost my job as well, since I worked for a Witness. He would have bought into a lifetime of the same thing for himself, and the children we would have had.

His decision hurt me - a lot. But it helped me to see what people other than Witnesses see when they look at us.

It took me another decade before I'd had enough life experience to see that JWs are a cult, practicing mind control on a level with The Manchurian Candidate. Every witness, and their families live with the threat of expulsion, of being "cast out to the demons" should you express any disagreement at all with what the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is currently (they have a long history of altering their beliefs) teaching.

Your girl - er, 18 year old woman, eligible for every responsiblity of an adult, and should be capable of making choices for her future. In a way she has exercised her choice. She's accepting their rules. She's not changing for you. I'm sure she'd like it if you at least made it look like you're converting so you two could marry. But what then? Is this what I want to live your life like? Is this what I want for your child(ren)? Are these people who you'd like to be dealing with the rest of your life? Can you see yourself becoming a Witness, studying their literature before going to the Kingdom Hall three days a week (usually two hours at a time), and preaching from door to door every weekend - OR ELSE?

I'm sure you've thought about faking it, and taking her away from it all. Maybe you're thinking like a woman who marries an alcoholic, that your love would change her. Yeah, right!

If you did fake it, and married her, and then didn't stay with them FOR EVER, they will disfellowship YOU, and her people could have not speak to you, eat with you, come to your home, or have you in theirs. How happy will that make you, your wife and your kids?

Witnesses like to claim that they are the true church because Jesus said "by their love you will know them" and see how we love each other. But that "love" doesn't last one minute past your not wanting to be a Jehovah's Witness.

20

How many "ascended the mountain", and didn't see "the light"?

by upside/down in

i'm talking about the jw dream of visiting mecca bethel!

i had heard the stories of "the friends" who came back from bethel ("ascended the mountain") and they came back with their faces beaming.

it was so great, that they could talk almost endlessly about it and the entire experience seemed to be so "spiritual".

SeeSee

HA! I was once a member of the Columbia Heights Congregation, which at least in those days, was the "home" congregation of all new "Bethel Boys". My mother moved us to Brooklyn Heights from California while I was still in high school, just so she?/we? could be near "the holy of holies".

Although my experiences in the three or four years I attended there predated yours by decades, I can affirm everything you said.

Many Bethelites were totally disillusioned after coming there. Some wanted to go home, but were told "you made a vow to come here for four years" inferring that if they left, they'd be breaking a vow to God. More than one told me he didn't know anything about having made a vow, he'd just made an agreement to come and work for them for (in the '60's) the appaling sum of $14 a month, and eventually, once they were trusted enough to be sent to other congregations in NYC's five boroughs, they were allowed subway tokens (15 cents each back then) as well. (So you'll get the picture the bond slavery these poor guys were under, I, at 16, and with zero skills, I got a summer job paying $80 a week.) The lucky ones had families sending them money.

The boys worked so hard. They were required to work 50-60 hours a week - including every Saturday morning. Because they weren't "employees" Bethelites had no protection under New York State labor laws. No benefits. No Social Security. No retirement. No savings. If they got sick, were disfellowshipped, or for some other reason had to go home before their time was up, they had to repay the Society for air fare they could never afford. (Figure it out: even with room, board and laundry, they got less than $3.25 a week for all their personal expenses!)

When you add to that from first bell till they were expected to be in bed each night, every moment was accounted for. If you didn't get a pleasant greeting, it didn't mean they wouldn't have under other circumstances. Don't take it personally. They may get paid more now, but they live in a pressure cooker. The factory (The Old Squibb building) and their short lunch period (a half-hour then) at the Bethel Home meant having to run/race/sprint both directions if they were to eat, and maybe make a phone call. (Phone calls were strictly forbidden on work hours.)

The New York congregations with Bethelites always had a source of cheap labor available on Saturday afternoon, and these tired guys tried to earn some more money. When they came on the subway Sunday morning for a meeting, and then field service, they had to be fed or they went without eating. (They could count on being very well fed by families with daughters, as Bethelites were prime catches.)

NOW, THIS WILL GIVE YOU CHILLS: We were taught that Bethel means "House of God" (which it does) but - because JW's don't read the Bible - they miss the incredible evidence that Beth-El was also the seat of false worship, a deliberately selected site to keep the people of Israel from going to God's Temple in Jerusalem for worship! Get you concordence out and look it up. Think about it.

On one hand I'm glad you found out the reality. On the other, you're in for a world of hurt if you try to live the lie. You'll probably never look at what the Society says the same way again. Paul admired the Boreans for their willingness to search and verify the scriptures - but JW's prefer to silence them with disfellowshipping. (They'd burn us at the state if they could get away with it.)

Perhaps you've been called on to pray for those in bondage there and elsewhere?

PS: I sure hope you gave something to the guy who was so kind to you, and who risked punishment for feeding you from their refrigerator - even if it was only an old pizza.