Posts by inquirer

45

So, are you, by nature, and introvert or extrovert?

by onacruse in

jw
friends

mulan's thread, and simon's post thereto, got me to thinking about this, especially in terms of what i might be today, minus the influence of the wts.. by nature, i was always an introvert.

early on (age 10 or so), i immersed myself in mathematics, physics, chemistry...the "pure" sciences, devoid of "worldly" meaning...just the plain and simple facts, thank you ma'am.

i'd stay in my room and study stuff until my mom had to literally grab me by the ear and say "craig, go outside and blow off the stink!.

inquirer

@mrsjones5

You an introvert!? No flaming way! The way you talk on this board I definetly pick up an introverted person!
Wow! The internet is a bit deceving!
Actually, I still don't believe it.

23

Why is what JW's believe in bad? what do they believe in?

by vaporize in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/90830/1.ashx

hi, im new to this site.

i use to believe in jw and i guess i always did but just lost faith and left it for a long time.

I used to be 100% convinced JW's were the only true religion, because I studied the Watchtower endlessly. It was not until I compared it to what other religions believe that I could see the dishonesty and inaccuracies. It is important that people in other religions are just as sincere about finding truth as JW's, and so have a good scriptural reasons for what they believe.

JW's know Watchtower doctrine very well, unfortunately Watchtower doctrine is quite simple and where it deviates from mainstream Christianity is usually wrong.

A simple look at the history shows why. Russell had no great religious knowledge, yet started a new religion by pasting together the bits he liked from other religions, something he admited to himself. When Russell died Rutherford discarded many of Russells teachings, calling many Satanic and introduced his own. This shows that Holy Spirit did not direct the religion, it was just the ideas of untrained men.

In general JW's are well intentioned, but it can be a dangerous religion. Extreme reliance on rules, the hypocritical stand on blood, and the extremely damaging using of disfellowshipping makes being a JW potentially damaging to a person in the long term.

I have posted some of the changes and some of the inaccuracies that i found with a little bit of research at www.jwfacts.com

inquirer -- awesome post! Keep it coming

23

Why is what JW's believe in bad? what do they believe in?

by vaporize in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/90830/1.ashx

hi, im new to this site.

i use to believe in jw and i guess i always did but just lost faith and left it for a long time.

inquirer

Diamondblue1974

If you consider the social dynamics of a congregation objectively however you can soon cut through the warm fluffy veneer and left remaining is a core of shallowness and fear, a fear they will not admit to because their minds are conditioned into ignoring it and pretending it doesnt exist; on the outside you see the subtle mind control techniques they use to indoctrinate people into believing their version of Christianity and its not hard to see that fear, guilt, and shallowness are fundamentally what is instilled into a Jehovahs Witness at all levels...be careful is my advice...consider everything you are taught objectively...research like you have never researched before but dont and I repeat dont just refer to their publications...get a balanced view on their teachings.

inquirer -- This brought back something to me... When I was having a discussion one time with this elder (regarding shunning) and I said so what if someone doesn't believe now, Jehovah's the judge... I saw him doodling on the paper, and I found it quite disturbing what he was drawing (when you consider the psychology of it). He drew 3 target circles, like as if he wanted to kill me. Much like this one (on the link) but having only one cirlce per target http://www.wmporter.com/targets/target%203%20Red%20Circles%20and%20Center.html

And, you really got to wonder why they are so adamant they are right on everything. And this doodling body language, just scared me a little as you can imagine!

23

Why is what JW's believe in bad? what do they believe in?

by vaporize in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/90830/1.ashx

hi, im new to this site.

i use to believe in jw and i guess i always did but just lost faith and left it for a long time.

inquirer

@Vaporize, (regarding the post by Confession )

My family has been involved for four generations and more than sixty years. I myself served as a JW elder. I've only come to recognize that the organization is not what it purports to be for approximately the last seven months.

As mentioned by another contributor, key to the entire JW belief system is that there exists a "channel of communication" from God to the entire planet. They use the scripture at Matthew 24:45-47 to support the concept. I won't quote a lot of scriptures here, but I will do so with this one--since it's integral to understanding JWs...

"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings."

At one time they recognized the founder of the WT Society, Charles Taze Russell, as the Faithful & Discreet Slave. But in time came to believe that it was actually a "class" of Christians. This coincided with their developing belief that only 144,000 from the earth would actually go to heaven, where they would rule as Kings and Priests during Christ's "Thousand Year Reign." They found a scripture that mentioned a "little flock" and "other sheep," and concluded that the little flock was the same as the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. The upshot? Only a very exclusive (and usually quite elderly) few still living today believe they will go to heaven when they die. The rest have an "earthly hope." And so those who profess to be of that 144,000--and are still presently alive are recognized as part of the Faithful & Discreet Slave class. Supposedly these ones, scattered throughout the earth are those who are dutifully looking after Christ's interests here--but in point of fact, it was always the Society's President--and more recently it's "Governing Body" of men in Brooklyn, New York, who have created and expressed its policies--and have compelled adherents to follow them.

Also important to understanding JWs is their belief that Armageddon is imminent. While other religious may also believe this, the JWs in particular have set definite dates for this event many times in the past. Originally it was believed to be coming in in the 1870s, but after that time came and went, the year 1914 was settled upon. It too passed by. 1915, 1918, 1925...I may be missing a couple of them, but one-by-one the prophsied years came and went--all, of course, without Armageddon occuring. After such an extraordinary series of failed prophecies, it is almost unbelievable that they AGAIN predicted a date beginning in the mid-60s. 1975 would be it. And that was thirty years ago. Even more unbelievably is how so many JWs continue to hang in there with the organization after such buffoonery. I was one of them. Today, JWs simply believe that Armageddon is "right around the corner." They come up with "new light from Jehovah" whenever they are in a position to re-explain a prophecy that was not realized.

They do not recognize Christ as Almighty God, but as God's son, who had a pre-human existence, being the first creation of God.

They do not subscribe to "immortality of the soul," believing instead that when you die, well, you actually die. They do however believe there will be a resurrection of the dead (for those who are not put to death during Armageddon.) Those of the "little flock" of 144,000 "anointed ones" will go to heaven. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" will have the opportunity of everlasting life in a paradise on earth.

They do not believe in literal torment in hellfire, but that those who refuse to conform to Jehovah's ways after they are resurrected--or those who live right up to the time of Armageddon who are not JWs--will experience the Second Death. This means that they will never receive a resurrection. Dead forever.

Regarding "modern day society," they have no problem with advancing technology, actually taking advantage of such organizationally, but instead constantly stress the need to have no unnecessary association with those who are not JWs. If they are unbaptized or are not regular meeting attenders, they are "worldly" and "bad association." They also emphasize not getting caught up in "the things of the world." They are warned not to spend time with their computers or television--or any form of recreation--if it might detract with having a "full share" in the door-to-door ministry.

Regarding "lesbians and gays," they recognize the Bible's comments on homosexuality as evidence that those practicing it will not "inherit God's Kingdom."

Regarding "various jobs," they have had much to say over the years. A Witness cannot be a Police Officer or be involved in the military. They cannot farm tobacco. As I write this, I find it pointless to keep listing them. The truth is, that the potential for the organization's finding fault with your career or job is limitless.

Regarding 'strength of belief.' Strong. Very strong. Someone else mentioned "cognitive dissonance." I agree. Many people want to believe in something, and the WT Society does a magnificent job of giving this to people. One of their most impressive feats (in my opinion) is how they've managed to "self-santize." They've done this through disfellowshiping those who do not remain loyal to the organization and begin to speak of it to others--and through demonizing such ones as evil "apotates," not even worthy of being prayed for. To the degree that an organization can keep its flock from finding where the bodies are buried--to the degree that they can keep presenting them with positive images, with purposeful work--to that degree they may be successful in receiving strong loyalty and belief.

Everlasting life in a paradise on earth... The world is passing away... Don't listen to opposers; they are only trying to mislead you... We love you; listen to us as God's spokesman... If you listen to opposers, you are opening your mind to Satan's "evil slave" and apparently have a weak or wicked heart condition... Oh, and if you DO listen to opposers, we may disfellowship you and brand you an apostate, effectively cutting you off from your entire family and community of friends you've known your whole life... Want to listen to opposers now??? I'm suggesting that the fantastic hope held out--combined with the gruesome penalties for even listening to opposers--does a pretty remarkable job of inspiring loyalty and strong belief.

You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe, but must accept the whole range of teaching as taught by the WT Society. You may not secretly entertain belief in a doctrine not sanctioned by the organization. Would you drink a glass of water with even a drop of poison in it?

Yes, a lot of what you've read is very negative. But it's not because of their basic Biblical teachings. It's because of legalism and authoritarianism. It's because they have placed themselves in the position of "conscience" for all their adherents, effectively usurping a person's own Christian conscience. It's because, in their fervor to keep the organization central in the lives of the flock, they are willing to ruin the lives of such ones.

I really enjoyed reading that post you did a while back on JW beliefs! That's pretty accurate! ...Actually it's all true!

Vaporize, I can testify that what he is saying is all truth! You can't go wrong with that! Get a good read of this, print it out if you want! It's in "book quality" form. :)

18

What the Watchtower Society thinks of your favorite bands!?

by inquirer in

elvis presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] for over two decades elvis .

presley was a superstar.

in a presley biography we read that although he had .

inquirer

Hellrider,

They even spelt it wrong. They`re called "deicide", which means "killing god(s)". And they`re not very good, never were, and are not/have never been in the forefront of the black metal scene. If you want black metal, look to Norway, cause here is were it started. Satyricon are definitely the best black metal-band these days. Mayhem were good, Meshuggah, early Dimmu Borgir, Cathedral and Ulver ( my personal favorite in this genre). I really hate it when those WTS-idiots pretend to be "up-to-date" on what`s going on in the "devils world", and it turns out they have no clue.

inquirer -- sorry that was me that got the spelling wrong. I was rushing with this article! I was frustrated with the formatting, but now I use this other program which converts it to the right formatting. :)

18

What the Watchtower Society thinks of your favorite bands!?

by inquirer in

elvis presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] for over two decades elvis .

presley was a superstar.

in a presley biography we read that although he had .

inquirer

young hearts, be free..

Wooooooooh, fuck!!!!!!

I remember reading all those articles when I was young (and impressionable), man they bring back some memories!!!! I was scared shitless by the references to Deicide, Slayer etc.......... I guess that was the aim!

Well I bought "Edward The Great"-Iron Maiden a few days back, love those guys...oops did I say love??? Sorry, I'm really not idolatrous! Have some sympathy for the devil though, he gets its pretty hard these days :D Jeez, you'd have to be a nut to take words seriously enough to kill a dog, to rape someone, to commit a murder in the name of music!!!

Right, can you just turn up that Marilyn Manson vs Eminem album, ta !

inquirer -- Love Iron Maiden! I use to listen to them all the time! I am more into Bruce Dickinson now! He's like my Elvis Presley (I like him as well BTW.)
Yeah, I was pretty young when this came out as well, somehow I just seemed to ignore that and just listen to them anyway. I didn't listen to Deicide though. Still never heard any of their songs. Gone off Slayer, just like all the typical old school Iron Maiden metal though. :)

14

Revelation book

by l3gi0n in

.

will revelations, grand climax at hand ever be studied again, or is the book apostate?

inquirer

darth yhwh said it all.
BTW, I really didn't like that book that much. I don't think it's well-written at all!

18

What the Watchtower Society thinks of your favorite bands!?

by inquirer in

elvis presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] for over two decades elvis .

presley was a superstar.

in a presley biography we read that although he had .

inquirer

It seems like you can only listen to Elton John! :)

18

What the Watchtower Society thinks of your favorite bands!?

by inquirer in

elvis presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] for over two decades elvis .

presley was a superstar.

in a presley biography we read that although he had .

inquirer

I'll use that other program -- it does the highlighter properly!

18

What the Watchtower Society thinks of your favorite bands!?

by inquirer in

elvis presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] for over two decades elvis .

presley was a superstar.

in a presley biography we read that although he had .

inquirer

Elvis Presley: [watchtower 1982, p. 24] For over two decades Elvis
Presley was a superstar. In a Presley biography we read that although he had
“an unbelievable career . . . he was not
happy. He had few real friends. He was surrounded, as he often complained,
‘either by fans or by spongers.’ He had no peace of mind.”

“He could not cope. He turned to drugs,
to uppers and downers, he grew argumentative, he was no longer the polite young
man he once had been. Those who knew him well still admired him, but they
no longer loved him. He lived alone, although not in seclusion, and he died
alone.”

__

heard music on the radio, but that was all. But this changed suddenly when we
moved and my grandmother gave my brother and me a phonograph. I wondered what
kind of records I should buy. My parents
recommended Elvis Presley, and I agreed. I bought one of his albums. Upon
hearing it I was enthusiastic. I bought another. But that was not all. I began
to collect newspaper articles about him and pictures. Later I bought some of his
posters. But this was still only the beginning. I got a haircut like the one
Elvis had, and I began to copy his ways. I tried to dress as he did. When I
turned fourteen, what did I have? At least fifteen of Elvis’ albums, posters,
piles of articles and a bad conscience.”

that copying or idolizing imperfect humans is unwise and self-defeating. His
view now is far more balanced and he concludes his letter by saying: “Let this
be a warning to other young people not to go too far.”

For example, America’s 19th-century industrialist Andrew Carnegie could have
been his country’s first billionaire. Instead, he gave away 90 percent of his
fortune over a period of 18 years. When his secretary warned him that he was
depleting his personal capital, he happily replied, “Delighted to hear it my
boy, keep it up.” That same era saw John D. Rockefeller, one of the richest men
in the world, give away $750 million in his lifetime. It has been written that
singer Elvis Presley “would hand out
Cadillacs by the dozen” and thoroughly enjoyed doing so.

encounter with rock music came when I was host of a show in Cleveland’s Circle
Theatre. The producer came running backstage. He was furious. The audience was
upset. Some were thoroughly bored by the performer on stage.
Others were shocked by his body
movements. Many were walking out in disgust. As emcee it was my job to get some
new young performer called Elvis Presley off the stage and bring on the next
act—and do it quickly!

Christendom, especially by its youth. Certainly the German teen-age girls were
guilty of idolatry when they painted on the portals of the
Bamberg Cathedral in Munich the words,
“Elvis Presley—my God.”

[in same watchtower as above] Popularity and prestige are in
the long run no replacement for a meaningful and satisfying life. George
Harrison, a member of the former Beatles group, said:
“There was no longer any satisfaction in
it.”

[in same article as above] A friend of Mick Jagger
once said: “Mick has always had an inner conflict.He never wanted the negative image with which he and the Stones were
burdened. But in order to cope with it,
he . . . became the evil, aggressive man the press represented him as being. . .
. On the other hand, he was always dreaming about a sound world, in which
maliciousness and power mechanisms would not rule.”

musicians are involved in the occult. Some openly admit that they worship Satan,
and satanic influence often shows up in their music and songs. But how can a
Christian tell if demonic influence exists in certain music? It is sufficient in
some cases to look at the cover of a record album. Depicted on it you may see
characters dressed to look like witches, demons or devils. Or the cover may have
pictures tending toward the mystical or the occult. The name of the musical
group or of an album may indicate a connection with the demons, as may the
titles and words of the songs. For example,what would you conclude from song titles such as “Sympathy for the Devil” and
“Children of the Grave”? The New York Post reported that one such song was “a
brazen admission” that the musicians were “working hand-in-glove with Satan.”

"N"): [awake! 1992, p. 31] Even the more mainstream heavy-metal groups purvey
messages that are hardly less grotesque. Time magazine reported that the two
record albums by the heavy-metal group Guns N’ Roses sold over 1.5 million
copies in three days. Yet, the albums continue what Time calls the band’s
“unrelentingly sexist and
uncompromisingly violent lyrics” and “their forays into xenophobia, racism and
sadomasochism.” They also feature such themes as
oral sex, homicide, and a profusion of
profanities. Several chains of stores have refused to sell the records.

Take heavy-metal music—a particularly noxious form of hard rock that is usually
played at ear-splitting volume. Heavy-metal bands typically sport names like
Poison, Skid Row, Guns N’ Roses,
and Slayer. Time magazine said: “The
band names alone conjure up images of mayhem, torture and death.” The same can
be said of the horrifying artwork that adorns the album covers and that often
depicts satanic symbols.

and “Appetite for Destruction” and has lyrics that glorify sadomasochism, rape,
and murder. So it is not surprising that the heavy-metal music guide Stairway to
Hell calls heavy metal “a triumph of vulgarity, velocity, verbal directness,
violent apathy.” Heavy-metal music has
also repeatedly been linked to drug abuse, Satanism, and suicide among its
listeners. Yet, according to media reports, heavy metal is winning a growing
mainstream audience.

that are hardly less grotesque. Time magazine reported that the two record
albums by the heavy-metal group Guns N’ Roses sold over 1.5 million copies in
three days. Yet, the albums continue what Time calls the band’s
“unrelentingly sexist and
uncompromisingly violent lyrics” and “their forays into xenophobia, racism and
sadomasochism.” They also feature such themes as
oral sex, homicide, and a profusion of
profanities. Several chains of stores have refused to sell the records.

[awake, 1984 p. 19] “I Would Never Do It Again!”

into a “cat person,” then a dancing “monster.” Evidently not wanting viewers to
conclude that it promoted spiritism, the film begins with the disclaimer:
“Due to my strong personal convictions,
I wish to stress that this film in no way endorses a belief in the
occult.—Michael Jackson.” Nevertheless, it was so realistic that some who
saw it admitted that they were horrified at first. What was this short film
intended to convey? And how does the performer, Michael Jackson, feel about it
in looking back?

short film, not to purposely bring to the screen something to scare people or to
do anything bad. I want to do what’s right. I would never do anything like that
again.” Why not? “Because a lot of people were offended by it,” explains
Jackson. “That makes me feel bad. I don’t want them to feel that way. I realize
now that it wasn’t a good idea. I’ll never do a video like that again!” He
continues: “In fact, I have blocked further distribution of the film over which
I have control, including its release in some other countries. There’s all kinds
of promotional stuff being proposed on Thriller. But I tell them, ‘No, no, no. I
don’t want to do anything on Thriller. No more Thriller.’”

...While not condemning all videos, don’t you agree that genuine Christians should rightly reject any videos (and
any other form of entertainment) that feature sex, violence, occultism or
any other theme that is clearly contrary to the principles set forth in God’s
Word, the Bible? And why put on a pedestal those who produce such things?

What should you do? Perhaps it was best summed up by young Bob, who said: “Be
very selective. Be careful of both the songs and the videos. Be ready to change
the channel.”

Decide: [awake!, 1994 p. 7] Last year in New Jersey, U.S.A.,
two 15-year-old boys brutally killed a
family’s pet Labrador dog named Princess. “It was a sacrifice for Satan,”
they claimed. They held the dog up by
her chain, kicked her to death, ripped her tongue out and used it in a satanic
ritual. They impaled the mutilated body of the dog on a large metal hook and
hung it in a neighbor’s yard. Satanic markings were found on the dog’s head,
and a pentagram (a five-pointed star in a circle—a Satanic symbol) was etched on
the ground beneath the dog’s body. On
the night of the killing, they were listening to Deicide (which means
murder of God), a death-metal band, whose lead singer boasts of torturing and
killing animals.

[awake!, 1992 p. 31] Death Metal—What’s the Message?

A WILD-EYED, long-haired young man
stands before an audience of cheering, chanting fans. He takes a bucketful of
animal blood and entrails and dumps it over the first few rows. The fans laugh,
wipe the stuff on themselves, and throw chunks at one another. This scene,
according to Florida’s St. Petersburg Times, took place at a rock concert by a
band called Deicide, which means ‘the killing of a god.’ This kind of music is
called death metal, supposedly the most extreme form of heavy-metal rock. In
recent years it has become more popular in Florida and internationally, ever
since the success of an album entitled Scream Bloody Gore, by a band called
Death.

The band Deicide is led by an avowed
Satanist who claims to have hated God ever since a car accident left him with a
J-shaped scar, which he is certain stands for either Jesus or Jehovah. He
claims to hear voices urging him to kill himself, and he has burned a satanic
symbol into his own forehead.

Queen: (I don't know if it's Queen they are talking about here, but if it
is, they are talking about that awesome song "Another One Bites the Dust,"
suppose to have said "It's fun to smoke marijuana" backwards.) [watchtower, 1983
p. 11] There have also been recordings of unscriptural and even
demonistic messages by means of a
technique called backward masking, used by a number of musical groups.
When the recording of one very popular
song is played backward, it repeatedly says,
“Decide to smoke marijuana.” If
played backward, another popular recording carries this message: “I will sing
because I live with Satan. . . . There’s no escaping it, my sweet Satan.”

Elton John: [awake! 1982, p. 19] There is truth in the refrain of the
popular song that says, “Sorry seems to
be the hardest word.” Why is this? Probably because “sorry” is an
admission of guilt. True, we seem to have no problem admitting our faults in a
general way. Tell a man “You’re imperfect!” and he’ll likely reply, “Aren’t we
all?” But tell him that he’s egotistical, proud, haughty, insensitive, childish
or irritating and you touch a raw nerve. No wonder the Bible counsels us to overlook, to put up with and to forgive the
faults of others.—Proverbs 17:9; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13.

?????? (I'd be really interested in
knowing this one!!!!!!!): [awake! 1974, p. 5] One day this woman heard
the name Jehovah in a popular song on the radio. Later, when one of Jehovah’s
witnesses called on her, she asked who Jehovah was. For the first time in her
life the Bible was opened in front of her and she began to study it with the
Witness. But the influence of spiritism persisted in her life. Why? This woman
did not realize the danger of possessing objects connected with spiritism.