Posts by stevenyc

my jw kids have been invited to visit the brooklyn bethel....during the grand wazzooo annual meeting this oct. i am a df'd dad living away from them for almost a year now...hardly any contact with them.

what can i do to prepare them and help them see the light?

any suggestions???

stevenyc

Get them to ask to see 85 Jay street car lot. Get them to ask what is going to be built there. After they are told about the multi-million dollar accommodation complex, get them to ask 'why are you building this if the end is so close?"

steve

124

thirdwitness and other pseudo-scholars: Let's discuss the Hillah Stele

by AuldSoul in

thirdwitness and other pseudo-scholars, .

firstly, i offer this disclaimer: i am not a scholar.

but i can add and subtract.

stevenyc

bttt

17

HAS WT EVER QUOTED FROM ALEXANDER HISLOPP?

by badboy in

jw
friends

author of the two babylons.

stevenyc

So thats where my mother got the notion that the cross came from Babylon. I had always wondered.

I read his reply to his early works and he comes across with integrety.

steve

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

stevenyc

I'm of to work now so I don't have the time to go into too much detail. But, I don't think I have to.

To all JW-Lurkers:

thirdwitness :

1. Ezekiel said Tyre would never be rebuilt but it was, therefore since the Tyre prophecy is figurative then the Egypt prophecy must be figurative.

Incorrect

2. Jehovah told Jonah to tell Nineveh that it would be overthrown but when Ninevah repented he did not carry it out so likewise Egypt.

Incorrect

3. There is no secular evidence that gives any indication that Egypt was desolated during this time period.

Correct - in part: no evidence of Desolation from Libya through Egypt to Sudan, so much devastation that all idols were removed, and not a single animal lived there for 40 years.

4. There is no way that Babylon could have displaced millions of Egytians.

See point 3, it was more than just a displacement of people, your sneeky apostate you

5. Ezekiel was a false prophet and neither the Tyre prophecy nor the Egypt prophecy came true.

Incorrect

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

stevenyc

In 3rdwit Post 109 he says:

Ezekiel 29-32 is unambiguous and does not mince any words. Egypt was desolated by Neb for 40 years without inhabitant. To deny this is to deny God's word. To deny this is putting secular evidence over the Bible's word. Plane and simple.

So lets once again remind ourselves of what Ezekiel prophesied.

I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock
They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.
21 I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign LORD."

We know that Tyre was rebuilt, in fact many times. For example, The Lebanon.com tourism site says this regarding Tyre:

During the Byzantine era, the Archbishop of Tyre was the primate of all the bishops of Phoenicia. At this time the town witnessed a second golden age as can be seen from the remains of its buildings and the inscriptions in the necropolis.

And we also know, via a quote from The Daily Telegraph that Tyre's 2006 population is 270,000.

So, knowing that Ezekiel said Tyre would be destroyed 26:13;"You will never be rebuilt" proponents of literal textual infallibility have made their case thus:

A)

3rdwit post 81: Then the rest of the verses continue to show what will happen to Tyre. So you see your whole theory that Ezekiel was wrong when he said Neb would destroy Tyre to the point of never being rebuilt is unscriptural not only according to Isaiah and Zechariah but even in the very prophecy of Ezekiel that you try to support it with. Ezekiel never said Neb would devastate Tyre to the point of never being rebuilt. It was 'many nations' that would carry out this prophecy.

Post 84: Wow, This is exactly what Greece (one of the many nations that came against Tyre) under Alexander the Great did.

Post 88: No you misunderstood me. I realize that Tyre was rebuilt after Alex. It was there in the first century. It was not until after many nations came against Tyre that it would never be rebuilt. That is exactly what Ezekiel said.

post 92: Notice that it is not just Babylon that Jehovah is bringing against Tyre. No indeed it is 'many nations'. Ezekiel's words, not mine. Then next Ezekiel prophecies about the first nation that will plunder Tyre...Ezekiel never said Neb would devastate Tyre to the point of never being rebuilt. Nor did he say that Alex would devestate it to the point of never being rebuilt. It was the 'many nations' over time that would carry this out finally fulfilling this entire prophecy.

Scholar Post 1374: That ancient city was an island and its remains submerged under the water. Perhaps you shiould read current archaeological reports about that ancient city.

or b)

scholar post 1373: Certainly, the area in which the ancient island city of Tyre has been rebuilt over the centuries and exists today but I did not see any evidence of that ancient city of Ezekiel's era in that lovely photo from Earth Google.

Their case boils down to two explanations of the "unambiguity" of prophecy, Either a) The city was destroyed by "many nations". The old city is under water. Or, b) the ancient city no longer exists.

Point b is Strawman, and has been shown to be false multiple times within this thread by posters like Alanf and Leoleia.

Point a, (and, remember that the proponent of "many nations" has stated that with regard to the predicted 40 year desolation of Egypt, Ez 29:30; is "unambiguous and does not mince any words", and Ezekiel's prophecy predicts in ch. 26 "It was the 'many nations' over time that would carry this out finally fulfilling this entire prophecy."), is that Tyre was destroyed by "many nations".

A search though the ancient time lines of the area gives us the answer. In AD 502 an earthquake hit the entire region, from Beirut to Akko, and this is when the parts of Tyre that are below sea level fell. Not by ANY nations.

It rebuilt itself after that as well.

From the (1) Department of Geology, Atomic Energy Commission of Syria and Department of Geology, Faculty of Science, Damascus University:

(r = richtre scale) 502 August 22 Friday, Akka: r8; Tyre: r7-r8, Sidon: r7-r8; Beirut: r7, Palestine: r6; Safad: r6?;Reina: r6?

Joshua the Stylite: 502 August 22, Friday: Ptolemais destroyed to the extent that nothing stayed standing. Half of Tyre and Sidon fell down. In Beirut, only the synagogue fell down.

Parametric catalogues – Plassard and Kogoj (1981): 502 August 21- 22, in Lebanon I = IX, half of Tyre and Sidon were destroyed, at Beirut ( I = VII) some damage in houses, remarkably in the synagogue (Joshua the Stylite). – Ben-Menahem (1979):

502 August 21 off coast Acre, Io= X, Ml= 7.0, Acre destroyed. Destruction at Sur, Sidon, Beirut and Byblos. Latrun (Nicopolis) destroyed (Amiran; Plassard and Kogoj). Seismological compilations – Guidoboni et al. (1994):

502 August 22, Akka I = X, an earthquake happened between 501 and 502, where Akka was overturned and destroyed completely, half of Tyre and Sidon fell, the synagogue in Beirut fell down (Pseudo- Joshua’s Chronicle). Palaces in Palestine were also affected (Russell). – Russell (1985):

502 August 22, Akko was overturned by an earthquake at night and nothing left standing. Half of Tyre and Sidon fell. The synagogue at Beirut fell down (Chronicle of Joshua the Stylite). Safad and Reina in Galilee could be affected.

steve

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

stevenyc

Meanwhile we await an answer:
Other than the conclusions of historians based on their interpretation of the secular evidence do you have any scriptural reason whatsoever for arbitrarily deciding that the 40 year desolation never literally happened?
All the 40s mentioned from the Bible above were literally 40 years or 40 days . I saw no symbolism. But even so you must connect the 40 year desolation of Egypt with another part of the bible to show it to be symbolic

Before I answer this, I need to know from you if you believe that the prophecies in Ezekiel are literal. Word for word. steve

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

stevenyc

Meanwhile we await an answer:
Other than the conclusions of historians based on their interpretation of the secular evidence do you have any scriptural reason whatsoever for arbitrarily deciding that the 40 year desolation never literally happened?
All the 40s mentioned from the Bible above were literally 40 years or 40 days . I saw no symbolism. But even so you must connect the 40 year desolation of Egypt with another part of the bible to show it to be symbolic

Before I answer this, I need to know from you if you believe that the prophecies in Ezekiel are literal. Word for word. steve