It's one helluva rush to go to the libraries and museums and really see for yourself how deceitful and cunning the WTBTS really is. Of course, they inherit those qualities from their master.
Exactly ... -ithinkisee
ithinkisee
JoinedPosts by ithinkisee
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31
On a whim, stopped by the library for books on Jerusalems destruction
by ithinkisee inso i was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered i do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 bce.
i figured i might find a book or two in our little old library.
i did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... i wrote down the dewey decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.
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ithinkisee
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31
On a whim, stopped by the library for books on Jerusalems destruction
by ithinkisee inso i was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered i do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 bce.
i figured i might find a book or two in our little old library.
i did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... i wrote down the dewey decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.
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ithinkisee
Although the WTBTS need 607 to be a 'solid' date, don't they support 586 in their OWN literature? (Alleymom's KISS approach).
Unwittingly they do. Sort of. They agree on the LENGTHS of the kingships for each, but they give Nebuchadnezzar different years of the beginning and end of his rule so that the 18th year of rule for Nebuchadnezzar is around 607.
The Society is no exception to the rule that once you tell one lie you have to start telling more to cover up the inconsistencies. The inconsistencies include:
- A twenty year gap that the Society says maybe there was another king in there somewhere. (anyone have a reference where they suggest this?)
Problem: Thousands of documents, royal inscriptions, manuscripts, astronomical records, and records of the Egyptians make no provision for a mythical 20 years. - Zechariah clearly points to the fact the the 70 years of desolation were still in effect during King Darius. Zechariah 1:1 gives a precise date. "In the eighth month in the second year of Da·ri´us the word of Jehovah occurred to Zech·a·ri´ah ". Then Zech 1:12 says that the 70 years were still in effect.
The Society and other sources put this at 519/520 BCE. SUbtract 70 years from 519 and you get 589 BCE, which was the YEAR that history says NEbuchadnezzar came up against Jerusalem and lay seige.
I am just figuring out the minor details of all this myself so I might be wrong in some of the claims made above ... so feel free to correct me.
(except Scholar ... stay away )
-ithinkisee
- A twenty year gap that the Society says maybe there was another king in there somewhere. (anyone have a reference where they suggest this?)
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Drop hints to your significant other at the convention
by ithinkisee inconsider this your apostate service meeting schedule for the district convention:.
there are a few talks that you can maybe make some off-handed comments to your significant other that may seem harmless at the time, but you can use to your advantage down the road as you break the news to them about what you have been learning about the "truth".
i did some of these myself and plan to draw on them when i break the news to my wife.
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ithinkisee
Consider this your apostate Service Meeting Schedule for the District Convention:
There are a few talks that you can maybe make some off-handed comments to your significant other that may seem harmless at the time, but you can use to your advantage down the road as you break the news to them about what you have been learning about the "Truth". I did some of these myself and plan to draw on them when I break the news to my wife. If I would have had a heads-up on some of the mind f*ck patterns beforehand I would have done more. The suggested action points are in red.
Friday11:20am Resurrection - Why That Hope Should Be Real To You
Suggestions: Before the assembly, as you are parousing the program schedule, mention to your spouse, etc something like, "Wow! There seems to have been a lot of stuff from the Society lately on the subject of the Resurrection. I think we had study articles back in 2000 or so on the resurrection, then those ones we just finished back in June, and now this. I wonder if the Society is trying to tell us something."During the talk the speaker says something like, "Some people have even gone so far as to make comments like, 'You'll never have to grow up in this system, Armageddon will be here by then.' Never would we want to be that presumptuous."
There is an opportunity here for YOU to look genuinely surprised and say something like "Wow, I have to look that up when we get back home, because it seems like the Society has said that kind of stuff themselves. Does that mean they were presumptuous?" This leaves an opportunity for you to follow up when you get home to follow up with some research and present it to them.Saturday11:30am Assembling Together - Why All The Moreso?
If you can't guess, this talk is on meeting attendance. The talk starts with a remarkable claim ... something like this:
"There is evidence that Jesus likely instituted specific times for gathering his followers together for worship."
Of course, they backed this up with no scripture. A couple minutes later they were speaking as if this were fact - that Jesus instituted specific meeting times.
When you look over the program for Saturday morning - and perhaps right before the talk - you could say something to your significant other like, "This is great. I am interested to hear what scriptures they use to back up having so many meetings per week." Get your spouse, etc to actively listen for the scriptural support for meeting attendance. Even do something like, "Honey, did he just say 'There is evidence Jesus LIKELY instituted specific meeting times?'"General Stuff I noticed every day of the assembly:There was a catch phrase used through almost every interview with publishers, etc. - "No regrets" - in their decision to avoid lucrative secular employment, scholarship opportunities, etc. This was uttered countless times - almost every life experience (several dozen) from youths on up had that phrase. And if they didn't use it particularly - the speaker would ask it - "Any regrets?"
In this instance - be on the lookout early on in the assembly (Friday if possible) to say something like, "Wow. 'No Regrets' must be the catch phrase for this assembly." This may help your significant other to see the pattern of manipulation.There are frequent insinuations in most talks that all educated people are snobby elitists, doctors are the same way. They imply that educated ones don't take to the "Truth" because they are too full of themselves. One speaker quoted from somewhere, "The higher the education level of a person, the harder it is to lead them." They dissuade higher education at every opportunity throughout the entire assembly. Being against higher education is the ENTIRE POINT of the drama on Sunday.In this case, you could say something before you even get to the assembly. Something like, "While I wouldn't expect the Society to ENCOURAGE higher education, it is nice that they at least aren't DISCOURAGING higher education. It's also nice they don't label all educated people as snobby elitists with no humility." Again, help your significant other identify the pattern early. That way when the so-called "hard hitting" drama rolls around, the moment is ruined.
There is a constant method of operation in almost every talk. Almost every talk started with how worthless we are as imperfect flesh. Then they would being up Jehovah's saving ability, and our "obeying" will make us feel less worthless - maybe even valuable in Jehovah's eyes. There was a lot of "if you love Jehovah you will want to obey".
In this case, you need to get your significant other to notice the pattern in each talk. The key here is to help your significant other identify the pattern early on - hopefully by the end of the first session on Friday. Then continue to point it out every time it happens.Sunday is very Christian themed. But Friday morning and afternoon sessions and Saturday morning are very fire and brimstone.
Keep a running tab of Hebrew vs Greek scriptures.Conclusion
A heads-up on the program and the subtle mind manipulation can help you get an edge on them in regards to your significant other. The key is to help your spouse identify the mind games early on so they are aware of the pattern.
Some gentle comments and preparation early on - maybe even before the assembly can help pave the way for other comments during the sessions by you.
Hope this helps someone ....
-ithinkisee
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31
On a whim, stopped by the library for books on Jerusalems destruction
by ithinkisee inso i was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered i do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 bce.
i figured i might find a book or two in our little old library.
i did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... i wrote down the dewey decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.
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ithinkisee
I know for most of you this isn't shocking. But for me it was more a wake-up call as to what a brain dead JW I was. I can't believe how f---ing simple and obvious it is that 607 BCE is a date they basically pulled out of their arse. All I can blame it on is me being a pompous and cocky self-assured ass as a younger man.
All I can say to you that are not registered Jehovahs-Witness.com readers that aren't registered on this site and only looking ... DO YOUR RESEARCH! We are lucky to be able to have so much research from people before us that had the balls to question the organization - without the luxury of messageboards and websites that give us easy access to documents.
There are a lot of us on this site that sound really bitter and pissed from time to time - but it is just that blatant deception from the Society like 607 BCE just makes me mad. Sometimes I understand how Jesus wigged out and kicked ass on the moneychangers in the temple. The blatant hypocrisy on the part of the WTBS just makes me want to kick ass myself.
The circular reasoning on the part of the society is incredulous:
Society: "Believe us because we are the channel chosen by God to deliver lifesaving messages to humankind. Listen and obey us and your life will be spared."
Lowly Congregation Publisher: "But how do we know that you have that kind of authority? That's a pretty powerful claim."
Society: " Because bible prophecy foretold it. The 70 years prophecy that hinges on 607 BCE, which points to 1914 as Christ's invisible return."
Lowly Congregation Publisher: "Well I just found 13 respected history books at the library that says Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587. So that pretty much sinks that theory."
Society: "Well, yeah. We know some historians say that, and don't try to hide that fact. But wait on Jehovah. Don't be presumptuous and run ahead of the organization, thinking you know more than the Governing Body. Stay close to the Faithful Slave because we are the chosen channel."
Lowly Congregation Publisher: "Wait a second. Didn't I just prove that your claim to authority is bogus?"
Society: "Wait on Jehovah. Don't be presumptuous and run ahead of the organization, thinking you know more than the Governing Body. Stay close to the Faithful Slave because we are the chosen channel."
Lowly Congregation Publisher: "WTF?!?!"-ithinkisee
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Anyone know any info about the new tract...
by princesslele44 inthat was released at the district convention this year?
?
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ithinkisee
IThinkISee Official Summary of New Tract:
It's stupid.
-ithinkisee
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31
On a whim, stopped by the library for books on Jerusalems destruction
by ithinkisee inso i was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered i do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 bce.
i figured i might find a book or two in our little old library.
i did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... i wrote down the dewey decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.
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ithinkisee
So I was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered I do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 BCE. I figured I might find a book or two in our little old library.
I did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... I wrote down the Dewey Decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.
First book I picked up I looked in the reference section in the back ... found Jerusalem's destruction on page 371. Turned to 371 ... bam! "...586 BCE Jerusalem was destroyed"
I checked a couple other books and didn't find anything ... they were books on modern Israel. Then I hit the mother load ...
By the time I was finished I had 13 books clearly stating Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BCE. Not only that, but many of these books had clear writings explaining the chain of events up to 586 BCE. Some showed that Nebuchadnezzar wasn't even king in 607 and wasn't even near Jerusalem in 607.
So I took the armload of books up to the photocopier and photocopied two or three pages from each book ... including the title page inside the cover for reference. Some of the title pages have the name of our local library stamped in the inset ... so when I show my wife she can see I got the references myself ... yay!
I gotta tell you, that made my day ... just thought I would share ...
-ithinkisee
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Was it really so peaceful prior to 1914?
by ithinkisee inwas it really so peaceful before 1914?.
the society loves to claim there was an unprecedented amount of peace prior to 1914 and that wwi was a complete shock to the world when it began.
yet history claims otherwise:.
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ithinkisee
TheListener said: I believe a collection of society quotes showing how prescient they are/were along with various quotes from period magazines, newspapers and other publications would be useful. ; That, along with what was really expected to happen in 1914 could be a very useful and non-threatening document.
Exactly ... stay tuned.
If anyone has anymore before I start compiling my list let me know ... I'll work on it this weekend.
-ithinkisee
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Was it really so peaceful prior to 1914?
by ithinkisee inwas it really so peaceful before 1914?.
the society loves to claim there was an unprecedented amount of peace prior to 1914 and that wwi was a complete shock to the world when it began.
yet history claims otherwise:.
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ithinkisee
More Americans died in the War of Northern Aggression (nothing civil about it) than in all other wars combined up until the Vietnam conflict.
Where did you find that quote?
-ithink
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Was it really so peaceful prior to 1914?
by ithinkisee inwas it really so peaceful before 1914?.
the society loves to claim there was an unprecedented amount of peace prior to 1914 and that wwi was a complete shock to the world when it began.
yet history claims otherwise:.
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ithinkisee
This is a good non-apostate link (Salon.com) that quotes from the Olaf book "Sign of The Last Days - When?"
http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/stories/2003/01/15/theLastDaysInThe14thCentury.html
All this information is great! Thanks! Keep em coming ...
(I think I need to get that book.)
-ithinkisee
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Voting on the Governing Body due to advanced age
by frankiespeakin ini think we need to remember that most of the gb are about ready to kick the bucket, and that effects the way they will try to steer the organization because they have the majority of the vote they are not thinking very long term.. they must know all thier failed predictions and that the end is not really close,, so really they are concerned only about thier own a$$es and want to have a nice position of power and prestiegde up until they die.
they really don't give a rat ass what happens to the org or the publishers when they are dead and gone.
the younger ones(minority) may have concerns that stretch a little more into the future, but only as far as they personally will live.. if we keep in mind the advanced age of these men we may better understand thier voting patern, which should reflect each ones private concerns.
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ithinkisee
Barber and Barr aren't dead yet?
Nope ... but they're old and shaking like polaroid pictures ....