Posts by Check_Your

44

A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

however that name does offend me.

i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

Check_Your_Premises

my current fiance is an unbelieving mate and I am willing to make any sacrifice for her

You wanna bet? If you are married to your wife, you have entered a binding agreement (you will suffer sanctions if you break the agreement) with her. As a baptized jw you are also in a binding agreement (you will be disfellowshipped and shunned if you break your agreement) with another group of people

So if it comes down to pleasing your wife or pleasing the org who is going to win. She is just an unbelieving mate. They are (you believe) Gods organization. To oppose God's organization is to oppose God! She will always be second fiddle.

Your fiance should tread very carefully. Especially if she wants her children to be able to think for themselves free from mind control methods that would make any chi-com commander of a pow camp proud.

44

A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

however that name does offend me.

i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

Check_Your_Premises

You don't talk like a dub sincere. You sound like whatever someone believes is fine. Every dub I talk to is so sure that they know the truth that they are sure either I will come into the truth or someting is wrong with me if I don't, ie I am prideful, worldly.

Have you been baptized? None of your jw family, friends, elders care that you are engaged to a member of Satan's organization?

Sorry. Not to sound accusatory, but you just don't talk like every dub I have met.

Quick dub check. Why is it ok that jw doctine has changed over the years. Jws claim they are one true religion because they only teach what is in accordance with the scripture. But doesn't their changes mean what they were teaching wasn't scriptural thus negating their "one true religion" claim? The Bible didn't change, only the interpretation from God's channel changed.

A j-dub will answer this question very predictably.

40

Would the W.T. be open for massive lawsuits if they changed blood policy?

by hubert in

i was just thinking of this, because of my last post topic.

if the watchtower changed their no blood policy to accepting whole blood, would and could that .

open the flood gates for law suits from jdubs that sacrificed their children for the tower, or would .

Check_Your_Premises

if they were to just drop the whole thing the might help themselves in the long run and wouldnt lose thier loyal core, it looks a lot worse to be flip-flopping, IMHO

I am not so sure. I think the jws like the idea that they might have to lay down their life for "Bible principles". It is all part of some sick pseudo-spritual psycho drama.

I read in Steven Hassan's book that peoples personality type gradually shifts to match that of the cults founder. The founder of the wt cult was a total drama queen.

10

Does the wt literature support lying?

by Check_Your_Premises in

.

just a quick question.

i have heard it alluded to before that jw's think it is ok to omit, or to feign ignorance, or even lie when "theocratic warfare" is at stake.. if so, can you give citations of examples where they condone giving less than "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

Check_Your_Premises

I found this one from May 1, 1957. Others?

Use
Theocratic War Strategy
A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.
In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus? wise counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves."?Matt. 10:16, NW.
Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God?s will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God?s will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God?s work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.
Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.
A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God?s kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one?s actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one?s words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.
Today God?s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God?s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God?s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.
[Footnotes]

For details see The Watchtower, February 1, 1956.

10

Does the wt literature support lying?

by Check_Your_Premises in

.

just a quick question.

i have heard it alluded to before that jw's think it is ok to omit, or to feign ignorance, or even lie when "theocratic warfare" is at stake.. if so, can you give citations of examples where they condone giving less than "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

Check_Your_Premises

Just a quick question. I have heard it alluded to before that jw's think it is ok to omit, or to feign ignorance, or even lie when "theocratic warfare" is at stake.

If so, can you give citations of examples where they condone giving less than "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"

Thanks.

22

I have decided to sit down and talk with a JW any advice?

by MM090503 in

i know i just made one post, but i have another.. after the conversation with my bf tonight, i finally gave in and said i would sit down with a jw.

i don't beleive the bs for one moment.

i don't see the point in doing this, but if it will make my bf happy i'm willing to do it.

Check_Your_Premises

Is your bf a jw? What is his relationship with the org? It is an important question because it will dictate how you proceed, and what your ultimate goal is.

Playing gotcha with a jw is probably not going to bear much fruit other than making you "the bad guy".

I would recommend Steven Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds, as a good "how to" for getting a loved one out of a cult.

Resist the urge to get in a "knockout". It won't happen unless he already has serious doubts. If he has "drank the koolaid"

Your basic steps are

1. Build trust and rapport with cult member and their cult identity

2. Gather info about cult, mind control, why they joined, other cults as well

3. Plant seeds of doubt, encourage free thinking, reduce effects of instilled phobias he has about leaving org, all by asking well thought out questions.

4. Involve family and friends who will do the same.

5. Educate him about other cults and how they use mind control. He won't listen if you talk about how jw's use mind control

6. If he still won't leave, maybe plan an intervention.

Or find some other guy who isn't going to cause you so much grief. There are plenty of happy, balanced, decent guys who aren't members of cults. Why waste your time on a fixer-upper? And whatever you do don't get pregnant! You will be an unbelieving mate, with no respect because you are a woman. Your kids will be raised jw whether you like it or not.

You will know them by the fruit they bear. Indeed.

44

A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

however that name does offend me.

i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

Check_Your_Premises

I hoped you would.

44

A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

however that name does offend me.

i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

Check_Your_Premises

It sounds like they have given up on you. I have found that if you want to get back in their good graces, you go to a meeting. Boy do they light up. Act interested again, or that maybe you are seeing things in a different way.

The big one is to start a study. That is big medecine for them. I stopped my study to punish them and my wife for going through on her baptism. They are love-bombing the heck out of me right now, because they are afraid they have chased me off with their inconsiderate and meddling ways.

Be the bait.

Hassan's book points out, one of the really nice things about cults is they are so very predictable.

44

A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

however that name does offend me.

i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

Check_Your_Premises

We can't do anything about the past, only lament it, learn from it, and teach others about it.

13

A good question to ask jws, and an important realization for me.

by Check_Your_Premises in

one of the things that i could never rationalize is the way the jws all claim to believe the same things.

i mean seriously, you can't get 4 people to decide on dinner!

how are you going to get 6 million to agree on countless and everchanging doctrinal pronouncements.

Check_Your_Premises

Slow-Steady-Deliberate-Relentless

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises