Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  1

  Would anyone have a Kingdom Ministry handbook handy

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  i was looking for the checklist of things the jw is supposed to work on to improve their communication skills.. if not i will check it out when i get home..

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I was looking for the checklist of things the jw is supposed to work on to improve their communication skills.

  If not I will check it out when I get home.
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  10

  Help me out with a list of loaded language JW buzz words

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am preparing a summary of methods to use to build rapport with the jw cult member.

  the summary will attempt to follow the methods used in the strategic interactive approach, which is described in steven hassan's book, releasing the bonds.. one of the things a person who has a loved one in a cult has to do is understand the loaded language.

  as we all know the jw have just such lexicon of buzzwords.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I am preparing a summary of methods to use to build rapport with the JW cult member. The summary will attempt to follow the methods used in the Strategic Interactive Approach, which is described in Steven Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds.

  One of the things a person who has a loved one in a cult has to do is understand the loaded language. As we all know the JW have just such lexicon of buzzwords. I have included what I have so far, but please feel free to add your own. If catharsis demands it, feel free to include your sarcastic ones as well. But keep in mind this is an attempt at a serious discussion, and it is hoped it will help non-jws to free their loved ones. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"

  • Torture Stake - Cross
  • Kingdom Hall - Church. Don?t call a church a KH, and don?t call the KH a church.
  • Talk - Sermon
  • Ransom Sacrifice - Crucifixion
  • "in the truth" - A Jehovah?s Witness member
  • "this system of things" or "the last days" - the here and now
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Logan,

  Thanks for the complement on my handle. It is a hold-over from my Ayn Rand days.

  Yes, I agree with you that the term "cult" should not be used lightly. In fact it is a term I have only recently adopted and applied to the jws. I would never use it when speaking to a jw, it is simply to inflammatory.

  You are also correct that a person should never try to use direct contact with an exit counselor until a great deal of groundwork has been laid. In my case, I still have a great deal of work to do. The reason I am interested in speaking to an exit counselor, is to give me advice as to how to proceed.

  You are also correct about other Christian groups that use such methods. I am inclined to believe in the aspects of freedom that Christianity provides. Salvation comes through faith and the grace of God. It is true that faith is manifested by works, but just as "faith without works is dead", so also is works without faith. If people need the influence and threats of other people to perform works consistent with faith, then they obviously lack the heart condition that is consistent with a true faith.

  That is one of the other reasons I don't like the wt org.

  Just curious. What is your status with the org? You don't sound like a dub. (you are here and willing to discuss criticism of org), although you could be construed as a bit of a jw apologist. You don't sound like a former dub (you are not bitter and want to treat the org fairly).

  Feel free to ignore the previoius question.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I am skeptical myself.
  

  Those are good points you bring up about cults, and mind control as well. Even though your questions are rhetorical, let me see if I can answer them.

  For me a cult isn't so much what they teach from a doctrinal point of view. So it isn't a matter of not liking my loved ones religious choices. What makes a group a cult is how the behave. If a group has to use mind control to keep it's faithful, faithful, doesn't that imply that they might not really have the truth. When I say mind control, I am using it in very narrow terms. They modify your behaviour (which in turn modifies thought), they limit your information, they instill fear, and they will punish you if you leave. Those are clear aspects of mind control.

  Now you did bring up a good example, the army. That is funny that you mention that, because I served as a Marine. The mind control/indoctrination methods that were used on me helped me to recognize the "feel" of indoctrination when I studied with the witnesses. It is absolutely true that the military uses mind control to make its members better soldiers, and more likely to survive combat. Here is the difference though. Although you are taught to follow orders in military matters, in all other aspects of life, the military prepares you to be mentally tough and to think for yourself. The military also has limited enlistment periods. The military has a chain of command, civilian oversite, and is subject to judicial review.

  The witnesses want you to pretty much reject any knowledge that is not provided by the faithful and discreet slave. They discourage all free thought, and leave members very morally stunted. That is to say, members become very confused if they have to decide right or wrong in a matter not specified by the wt. They will not let you leave, if you do they will assume it is because of a character flaw in YOU, and they will make your exit as painful as possible. When the wt uses mind control it is not to empower the individual, it is to transfer control from the individual to the org. Furthermore, there is simply no check on the authority of the GB. They can pretty much do anything, and it is expected to be obeyed because they are God's organization.

  Likening the military to the jw is simply not a valid comparison.

  In all fairness, even though I do consider them to be a cult, I would consider them to be a very benign cult relative to many others out there.

  As long as you don't need a blood transfusion!
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  66

  If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

  but i don't disavow my citizenship.

  it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Witnesses often see "no risk" in terms of their relationship with God, by staying with the jw. They see the risk only in looking for a relationship with God outside the org, and learning about other Christian teachings. As a loved one said to me, "Why risk it".

  I have a question though. Suppose the jw are not God's organization, if He didn't choose them, if they are not His channel than that means the jws took their beliefs and used the Lords name to give them credibility. They are speaking for God. They are claiming Divine appointment to glorify themselves.

  Would that not be blasphemy?

  Would there not be some risk in associating and worshipping with people who might (only God truly knows) be blaspheming His name?
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Yes, Logan, discernment is necessary in all things, not just when criticizing the wt.

  Perhaps there was a loony person working at the help line. THere are loony person's everywhere. What I am looking for is someone who has experience with helping people, help loved ones, to leave the wt.

  What you are referring to when you talked about kidnapping and re-brainwashing is an outdated method called "deprogramming". I am trying to utilize a method described in Steven Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds. It is a "how to get your loved one out of a cult" manual. One of the things he instructs people to do is get in touch with a good exit counselor.

  He is actually trying to move exit-counseling to a new phase. He calls it the Strategic Interactive Approach. His method involves getting the loved ones family and friends involved to help the cult member. They learn to interact with the cult member in effective ways that lays the necessary ground work for a person to leave a cult.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I checked out the site. I would like to go to the one in Chicago in June, if for no other reason than to establish some good contacts with former witnesses.

  I will have to account for my time though. It will be hard to say I am going out for milk and come back two days later.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Have you ever been to one of their conferences Blondie? Do you recommend that I attend?
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  10

  How should God conclude this current sytem of things?

  by cheeseman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as a kind of follow up to disciples post.

  god cocked up, didn't deal with the sitch at the time.

  now we have this mess...so how does he fix it given the current state of things?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Loudly exclaim with lots of lightning, and trumpets, and fanfare that the WT is not His specially chosen and appointed publishing company. He is tired of them sullying His good name.

  As pennance for all the silly ideas they came up with, Russell, Rutheford, Franz have to spend eternity in the new system knocking on the doors of our newly built homes to give us a pamphlet explaining just how wrong they were, and just how much pain and misery was endured so they could live out their fantasy of divine appointment.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Thanks Blondie. I just sent him an email.

  MDP