Posts by Check_Your

since the entire scriptural, historical, and medical basis for the ban on blood is baseless and incoherent, ultimately it rests on the credibility of the wt as god's organization.. of course we can't rely on that either, because the history of the wt includes a ban on organ transplants and vaccinations.

today they allow those treatments, and therefore by their own admission they incorrectly placed restrictions on them in the past.

unquestionably people died adhering to those restrictions.

Check_Your_Premises

Since the entire scriptural, historical, and medical basis for the ban on blood is baseless and incoherent, ultimately it rests on the credibility of the WT as God's organization.

Of course we can't rely on that either, because the history of the WT includes a ban on organ transplants and vaccinations. Today they allow those treatments, and therefore by their own admission they incorrectly placed restrictions on them in the past. Unquestionably people died adhering to those restrictions.

So if you ask a dub, "suppose it is ok to accept blood/organ transplant/vaccination in God's eyes. Is it then wrong for you to accept it even though the the org says it is not?" I am sure many of us have asked this question and received the following terrifying response:

"Even if the JW are wrong in their interpretation, they are God's organization. God would still expect me to follow His arrangement and obey His organization. We all die. But only those who submit to His arrangement can expect a hope of resurrection."

So my question from a scriptural standpoint is this:

Has God EVER given this sort of authority to men?

Has God EVER expected men to obey a human He chose as His special servant even when they acted outside His authority? when they acted in error? or against the conscience of the people His special servant is given authority over? to the point of sacrificing themselves or their children?

15

Trinity ?'s

by sinis in

can someone please explain the trinity in an easy to understand format?

i have been doing a lot of reading, dr. mantey,etc.

and am starting to lean towards that.

Check_Your_Premises

http://www.biblicalanswers.net/docs/ev04287_ets2004.pdf

This one is a pretty good breakdown of how to explain the trinity to a jw. I think it might answer some of your questions as well.

CYP

16

Hey UBM's - good things about being in a commited relationship with a JW??

by Why Georgia in

in the spirit of jgnat's poll's.... let's name some good things about being in a commited relationship/marriage with a jw who actually follows wts doctrines.

i know there will probably be a lot of sarcastic responses.

i'll start.. because of my husbands faith and actual belief in the way he was raised - i know he won't cheat on me or be out in the bars.

Check_Your_Premises

I posted that one and ran like a sissy. I peaked in expecting a big mob of angry ubm ladies. At least Carla called me on it.

CYP

16

Hey UBM's - good things about being in a commited relationship with a JW??

by Why Georgia in

in the spirit of jgnat's poll's.... let's name some good things about being in a commited relationship/marriage with a jw who actually follows wts doctrines.

i know there will probably be a lot of sarcastic responses.

i'll start.. because of my husbands faith and actual belief in the way he was raised - i know he won't cheat on me or be out in the bars.

Check_Your_Premises

The man is the head of the household!!!

25

Need some quick advice...

by sassafras in

jw
friends

my biweekly jdub visit is coming up here in a few hours, and i could use a bit of advice.... the lady knows i am a big time doubter, but she has some sort of personal mission to get my husband back into the truth (it makes me sick to write that) and get me in as well.

she comes by at the exact same time every two weeks to drop of the new wts, reads some scripture, asks how i'm doing, blah blah blah.. i'm pretty polite to her, but i'm ready to kick it up a notch.

any suggestions for something i could start with?

Check_Your_Premises

So you are trying to wack your MIL? That is cool. What does your hubby say about the JW? DOes he think they are the one true religion?

THe advice you got was "quick". There is nothing quick about opening a closed mind.

I would recommend reading some books about cults before you really try to make a run at her. If you approach it like you are trying to win an argument, then you have already failed. Talk to them like a person, not a salesman. Real people actually care and are interested in the person. Salesman only are interested in the person as it pertains to making the sale. Get the difference?

Maybe order Combatting Cult Mind Control and/or Releasing the Bonds both by Steven Hassan.

His whole deal is that helping someone out of a cult isn't a matter of this info or that. It is more of a process. It also might be good for your hubby to read these books as well. Even if he is not in, it might be healthy for him to read about mind control and the phobias that are used to keep people captive.

You might help to clear up some of that "waffleiness".

See the JW are a cult not because of what they believe, rather because of HOW THEY BEHAVE!!!

If someone has the truth they should never have to threaten people with shunning or demand that people not read certain books. Those are control mechanisms to limit a persons perspective to the cult perspective.

Ask your husband how he would feel about it first. If it would bother him read them on your own and maybe mention some of the ideas to him. If your MIL has other family that IS NOT jw, see if any of them would be interested.

CYP

25

Need some quick advice...

by sassafras in

jw
friends

my biweekly jdub visit is coming up here in a few hours, and i could use a bit of advice.... the lady knows i am a big time doubter, but she has some sort of personal mission to get my husband back into the truth (it makes me sick to write that) and get me in as well.

she comes by at the exact same time every two weeks to drop of the new wts, reads some scripture, asks how i'm doing, blah blah blah.. i'm pretty polite to her, but i'm ready to kick it up a notch.

any suggestions for something i could start with?

Check_Your_Premises

Are you a CHristian? Were you a dub? Everything with the JW is about status, so your status dictates your response.

I like to say to dubs, "you know, I believe in God. I have salvation because I have faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in me, remaking me in Christs image in ways I never dreamed possible or could do on my own. So why do I have to be a JW? To me that is like telling me I got the president of Walmart there to help me, and telling me I should go talk to some cashiers! Help me out?"

I have had them come back with the verse about if you reject the disciples you reject Jesus.

I replied, "so what if you accept the disciples message but reject them? I mean the gospel isn't about accepting the disciples is it? That sounds like a different gospel then the one originally delivered? What about that guy on the ...um torture stake next to Jesus. Did he have to accept the disciples also? Did the Bible writer leave that out for some reason?"

Another standard is just to say: "isn't it funny how all these groups claim they are the right one! I mean how do you know for sure? Do you go around and check out all the groups that claim this? Of course you beleive it because it all seems so true. BUt what if you went to one of those other groups and they seemed even more true? I just don't even know where to begin!!!"

All said with a smile and VERY casually? Your persona is that you are VERY interested, VERY honest, VERY humble, and VERY confused.

CYP

7

The nature of the JW pendulum swing: length, intensity, trends over time

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

i have a science and math background so i naturally want to quantify things, model things, and analyze things.. i have heard folks here frequently discuss the pendulum swing of the jw.

for awhile they are full of zeal.

they perform all their duties flawlessly.

Check_Your_Premises

Well maybe my appeal to science took this thread in a little different direction then I wanted it to go. I don't really think it is possible to quantify such a thing or come up with a formula. To many variables. You can always approximate in those sort of cases.... but I digress nerdily.

What I really want to hear is some empirical data. What are your experiences as jw's. What are your experiences as to your jw loved ones.

Just looking for any sort of insight here.

My wife's swings appear to be driven by events. Right now I have two lows and two highs about 4 months in wavelength (time from high to high or low to low) and of significant amplitude (emotional distance from high to low).

What bodes best for their exit. More frequent highs and lows or fewer? More time spent in the low then the high? An overall trend where the high isn't so high anymore and the lows keep getting lower?

Every person will be different I suppose.

Thanks for any input.

CYP

40

Followup on activity at NYC Bethel

by startingover in

i posted something a few days ago on friends regarding printing still being done in nyc.

i have some new info and am putting it under scandals because it doesn't move so fast.. i have family members that just returned from a trip to nyc.

they did the tours in brooklyn, walkill and patterson.

Check_Your_Premises

Thanks for the info.

Like all totalitarian systems, information is limited and it is hard to know what is going on in the inner workings of the leadership.

We are kind of like the Kremlinologists who would try to decipher the internal political dynamics of the Kremlin by analyzing the signficance of which politburo member was sitting next to the Premier. We will speculate and be incorrect many times, but any info we can obtain will help us to paint a clearer picture.

CYP

7

The nature of the JW pendulum swing: length, intensity, trends over time

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

i have a science and math background so i naturally want to quantify things, model things, and analyze things.. i have heard folks here frequently discuss the pendulum swing of the jw.

for awhile they are full of zeal.

they perform all their duties flawlessly.

Check_Your_Premises

I have a science and math background so I naturally want to quantify things, model things, and analyze things.

I have heard folks here frequently discuss the pendulum swing of the JW. For awhile they are full of zeal. They perform all their duties flawlessly. They really feel good about their faith and their prospects of salvation. Then after awhile they come back down and are less enthusiastic. They don't go out in service as much. They openly express their frustrations and doubts even to an unbelieving mate! Then they swing back.

So how long do the up swings last?

How about the down swings?

How much time is usually between an upswing and a downswing?

What are the trends that we should look for and what do they say about the person's overall prospects of being ready to question the JW as God's religion?

Any thoughts, observations on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises