Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  70

  JW's TORTURES DAUGHTER TO DEATH

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  girl's brother testifies father fatally beat her

  chicago tribune, united states - 20 minutes ago .

  ... avenue, chicago.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  It's times like these when I question the founder's wisdom in putting that whole bit about "no cruel and unusual punishment" in the Constitution.

  It is hard to imagine something cruel and unusual enough for these people.

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  not a suicide cult

  Well I don't know if I agree with you entirely there. The purpose of human sacrifice is that it is the ultimate expression of faith in a life beyond this one. I think that is the psychology and appeal to human sacrifice of all forms throughout all history.

  The simple fact is that the scriptural basis for refusal of blood in life threatening situations is extremely weak when subjected to any analysis beyond superficial.

  So what then makes this such a strong appeal, if the intellectual basis for it is so weak. I would submit that the appeal then is the same as for all human sacrifice, and therefore the jw are in fact a suicide cult.

  They just don't do it all flashy like Jonestown.

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I know onesong. I am always aware of OTHERS reading our threads and comments. I don't want anybody to labor under false ideas such as the suggestion that influence is inescapable and therefore we shouldn't worry about it.

  I know you weren't making that point. I was just making sure others didn't mistake what you said.

  CYP
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  9

  JW vs Orthodox Study, Developing a Verse

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a young man who has been asked to develop a talk around isaiah 60:22 "how does is this verse being fulfilled today" .

  he asked me to help, but not just to prepare the jw-sanitized version, but how we might include some, you know, alternative interpretations.

  i thought it might be helpful to compare how a jw would study and prepare for a study, versus orthodox (or the highly unorthodox scholarship of jwd) when tackling the same verse.. 22 the least of you will become a thousand, .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  An interesting angle would be to consider how to direct this person in researching.

  If they try to address if from the standpoint of how the JW started small and became larger, it might force them to do some research into the history of the organization?

  We all know where that can lead!

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Onesong,

  True, influence is all around us and ever present. I would resist the urge to throw our hands up and conclude that all influence is equal.

  One question when considering influence, is does it work to increase the amount of control the person being influenced has over their life? Or does it work to give that control to the one influencing.

  Does it do so overtly or covertly?

  Does it use as it's basis, bogus claims of authority?

  Does it use fear or guilt?

  Clearly all influence is not created equal. It is important then to recognize the differences, and what types of influence are unethical.

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Eduardo,

  It is also interesting that Hassan EXPLICITLY mentions the JW in his second book, Releasing the Bonds.

  The thing about cults is they are all different in HOW they apply Lifton, and the degree of control they attempt to have over their members.

  I would submit that there is a direct correlation to how anti-social and destructive a cults doctrine is to how much control they need to have over their members. The kookier and more dangerous, the more controlling they have to be.

  I would also submit that there is a direct correlation to how much control a group attempts to acquire and how large of a group they end up being. More controlling, the smaller the group.

  Nobody doubts that there are some groups that are less controlling and abusive than the JW. That is hardly a ringing endorsement by the way. The fact of the matter is when people attempt to control people, you will almost always end up having an abusive situation.

  Abuse means one person attempts to disrupt the other person's confidence in their own ability to judge and respond to reality. I think it would be hard to read Hassan's description of mind control Combatting and not seeing a direct correlation to methods used by the wt. I guess one would HAVE to be willing to see such correlations.

  "Men often stumble upon the truth, and the quickly pick themselves up and hurry on as if nothing happened" -Winston Churchill

  So the question is why does the "truth" need to be maintained and protected by methods of unethical influence commonly used by bizarre cults, and even abusive mates? I always thought the only thing needed for the truth to flourish was for it's quality to be shown in the free and open exchange of ideas. I thought only lies had to be maintained by domination, claims of authority, and ad hominem attacks on those who disagree.

  Or maybe the question is why do some refuse to recognize or wish to minimize the reality of the unethical influence used by the wt?

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Back on the discussion of Combatting:

  I have had several conversations with jw's in informal settings over the years when they have incredulously mentioned how some folks call them a cult.

  I think an excellent response to make when this subject comes up is to say:

  "What is a cult anyway? I mean, what does that word even mean? How could you say the WT is a cult, unless you really know what that word means. I read an excellent book on the subject, called Combatting Cult Mind Control by a guy named Steven Hassan. I think if you read that book you would really be well equipped to refute someone calling the WT a cult. It would help you to articulate what a cult is and why the definition doesn't apply to the WT."

  In the course of the converesation, mention the name of the book as much as possible so they can't forget it.

  CYP
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  34

  ESSENTIAL READING - Steven Hassan "Combating Cult Mind Control"

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a lot of reading on the internet about mind control, which often summarised hassan's book, but nothing came close to how interesting his book is.

  i was taking notes until i realised that every page said something that applied to the watchtower society.

  what makes the book effective is that hassan was a moonie, so it does not seem to be an attack on the wts, so can be read by a jw without being offensive to them.. even if you are no longer a jw this is essential reading to help you get over the experience.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  jw facts,

  Yes, I finally ordered and am reading this book also. I read the later Releasing The Bonds. That book does explicitly mention the WT. Combatting gives a much better description of mind control. RTB gives a much better description of the process by which a person helps another leave a cult.

  I would recommend reading both.

  I also would recommend making sure your local library has a copy of Combatting and Crisis of Conscience.

  I am currently reviewing Rick Ross's Abusive Relationships video. It doesn't appear to mention the wt, but it does compare abusive relationships to cults. This could be a good non-threatening way to introduce the concept of mind control under the guise of educating someone about abusive relationships.

  Also, people are more likely to watch a video then read a book. Especially when they are so busy reading all that mind control garbage the wt puts out.

  CYP
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  20

  For jw .... if you don't mind my asking, how long have you been a jw?

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how long did you study before you got baptized?.

  were there any long standing habits you had to get rid of before you got baptized?.

  do you bring your children to the meetings?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Unfortunately for them, jw's are surprisingly easy to despise. (the "I have the truth and you don't attitude" is just always obnoxious no matter how you package it!!!)

  As a result, most here will feel more inclined to give them a good theocratic slapping around.

  The problem is that only reinforces their worldview of apostates/df/da - types being bad people.

  You want to mess with jw? Mess with his world view. Kill him with kindness, reasoned discussion, fair questions, logical debate, and even sympathy.

  The longer jw stays here, the shorter his/her stay in spiritual bondage.

  CYP
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  14

  UBM Point to ponder: Where do we fit into the equation

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am reading the emotionally abusive relationship: how to stop being abused, how to stop abusing.. .

  it has been an enlightening read to say the least.

  i turned toward this topic due to ladylee's constant reminders that cults are simply another form of abusive relationship.. .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I am seeing that all organized religion has some cultic characteristics

  This is an interesting topic. Make sure you keep one thing straight in your mind. What makes a group a cult is NOT what they believe, it is how they behave. The focus of this behavior is on control. A cult tries to transfer control from the individual to the group.