still don't see where salvation is from being a member of the right group.
still don't see where I have to have the right friends or be in the right building to have a relationship with Jehovah.
Check_Your_Premises
JoinedPosts by Check_Your_Premises
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43
Do you not see, Do you not hear, Are you asleep?
by jw ino timothy, guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called knowledge.
21 for making a show of such [knowledge] some have deviated from the faith.
2 timothy 3:1-13 .
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155
I found this and am in total agreement. Feel free to answer the Questions.
by jw inregardless of how you feel about jehovah's organization--the true religion, one thing for sure, you will not escape the almighty jehovah's judgement right along with satan the devil and his destructive organization.
how will you save yourself and those who follow you...?
it's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use.
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Check_Your_Premises
(reposts)
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155
I found this and am in total agreement. Feel free to answer the Questions.
by jw inregardless of how you feel about jehovah's organization--the true religion, one thing for sure, you will not escape the almighty jehovah's judgement right along with satan the devil and his destructive organization.
how will you save yourself and those who follow you...?
it's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use.
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Check_Your_Premises
jw,
Interesting. Maybe you need to understand something about folks here. All we have in common is that we are in some way affiliated with the JW religion. Most are not members now.
That is it.
Since leaving, many have learned to.... ok get ready....
THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!!
That means folks here look at ANY evidence or information they want. They look at stuff the society provides as well as things the society wishes folks would avoid. They use their OWN judgement to decide which information is valid.
Then they use their own brains to draw conclusions from that evidence. They bring those conclusions here and share, compare, and scrutinize in a free and open exchange. If someone disagrees, they actually have to provide better evidence or reasoning. They can't simply label someone an apostate, or threaten to ostracize them.
This seemingly chaotic process however leads to a sifting of facts and ideas. The best ideas tend to percolate to the top, while the weakest tend to drift toward obscurity where they belong.
But still, with so many different perspectives on reality, it is completely natural that some would come to different conclusions. Some pray to Jehovah, some do not. Some beleive the Bible is the inerrant word of God, some do not.
We are all utlimately responsible for our own relationship with God.
One single conclusion seems to be a constant here though. NOBODY believes that the only way to have a relationship with an all powerful, perfect God is through an organization of imperfect men. Nobody believes that with Christ's perfect sacrifice, that we need to yet earn our salvation by following the rules and regimen of some imperfect men. And nobody believes that with the perfect help of the Holy Spirit, that any here need additional guidance and authority from some imperfect men.
Show me in the Bible where any of those things are acheived through fallen men.
CYP
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My Wife.... Ughh
by roflcopter ini don't know how many times i have shown my wife from the societies own literature the fallacies of the past but it still doesn't convince her.
just just shrugs it off and says "at least they were humble enough to admit they are wrong.".
it blows me away cuz i reason and say "what if they are wrong now, if we questioned it we would be expelled.." .
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Check_Your_Premises
She has been intoctrinated with thought stopping techniques. She has been trained to use cliche's and catch phrases like "at least they are honest about their mistakes" or "where else can we go" or "they are just imperfect men" or "apostates just want to tear down, they never want to build up".
These are just a few examples. By using these cliche's she is able to answer the question in her mind without any further thought or analysis. Anyone trying to get her to view the jw in a negative way is trying to take her faith away! Anyone trying to take her faith away is trying to endanger her hope for eternal life.
Why would she want to listen to that?
You do not have a jw problem, you have a cult problem. Spend more time learning about cults and how to help people in them. Spend less time hassling your wife over her beliefs. It won't work and it will only cause her to view you negatively and with less trust.
Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan is probably the best explanation of this phenomenon. His next book, Releasing the Bonds is excellent as well.
For info on cults check out rickross.org. He has some good videos if you aren't much for reading.
Take care. There is probably nothing more maddening than being married to a JW. But there is hope, and there are many here who share the experience.
Don't try to re-invent the wheel. There are many who have been where you are. We know what works and what doesn't.
CYP
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hello questions about JW
by bananna init seems hard to find a jw contact on the internet.
i'm a messianic and i'm trying to get an idea of what jw teach without all the prejudice of the mainstream gossip line.
is there any out there defending the jw beliefs on line?.
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Check_Your_Premises
banana,
Some groups with similar an interesting ideas are the
Christadelphians - They maintain similar views on the nature of Christ and believe that the faithful will live forever on a paradise earth
Armstrong groups - These are several break-away sects from the Worldwide Church of God. Two websites I am aware of for these guys are www.thercg.org and www.tomorrowsworld.org (the second one has a tv show!)
Bible Students - These folks believe most of the stuff the JW's do, since this is their founding group. It was started by Charles Taze Russel. When he died Joseph Rutheford took over the publishing company and renamed them the Jehovah's Witnesses. Those who did not wish to go with him remained Bible Students.
Hope this helps!
CYP
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Church of Christ
by TheListener in.
is anyone here associated with a non-denominational church of christ congregation?.
i read the fairly detailed write-up on wikipedia and found it somewhat, key being somewhat, similar to the jws except for the rules and regulations and the strong focus on end times.. it seems like an intriguing religious group.
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Check_Your_Premises
Listener,
I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if someone already pointed this out...
I think there are two seperate COC's. One is a cult that uses the same name as the bigger, orthodox group. I am not sure how to distinguish the two. If you show up and get love bombed, you know which one!
CYP
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Check_Your_Premises
CYP: jw,
That was profoundly succinct.Not profound, just a computer glitch while posting....
...wise ass
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Check_Your_Premises
jw,
That is an interesting question.
I always remembered the account in Matthew 12, where the pharisees attributed Jesus' ability to cast out demons to satan. Jesus then went on to tell them that blasphemy against the son of man would be forgive, but blasphemy against the holy spirit would not.
I have always struggled with that verse, since it seems counter to Jehovah's nature that there is a sin that would not be forgiven. Nevertheless I have always been VERY careful not to attribute the works of other to satan.
With that said, I think the whole game of crediting success to Jehovah is a dicey game. Naturally we want to attribute any success we have to Jehovah, it gives us instant spiritual "street cred". On the other hand, if we do it to much we risk making Jehovah look bad when we make fools out of ourselves. Naturally, Jehovah does not deserve credit for the mormons falsely claiming that native Americans are related to Jews in the face of irrefutable DNA evidence.
And what about anyone who is successful? Does Microsoft have Jehovah's blessing? What about people who simply are using good practical methods and processes that naturally lead to success? Is it possible for instance that the Jehovah's Witnesses might have his blessing, but at the same time they are using very effective methods to grow membership and maintain loyalty?
What might those methods be? Would JW for instance be as effective if they recommended that all read any argument or look at any fact that might support the explanation the JW are not his organization? I mean if they have Jehovah's spirit, it shouldn't matter should it?
Shouldn't the truth always welcome questioning and doubts because it knows it's quality will be proven and our faith made stronger in the light of honest examination?
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I saw the movie United 93
by pratt1 in.
as i mentioned in an earlier post, i went to see the movie united 93 with a group of friends who were with me at the wtc on 9/11.. first, i encourage all of you who feel that you are ready to see this reenactment as a movie, to see it.
because it is on a wide screen and most of the film takes place in the traffic controller's offices and the inside of the plane, you get the feeling of actually being part of the action.. the film tells the story of how the traffic controllers, military, and the passengers of the plane realized that what started out as a few planes missing from radar turned into a delibrate terrorist attack on our government.. filmed in what seemed to be almost real time you see how people went from bewilderment, panic to resolve and of course eventually the actual tradgey.. it is quite heartwenching watching the passengers realize that they were going to die, and how many of them communicated with their loved ones, leaving them with messages of love and resolve.. i hope i haven't given too much away.. it really makes you realize that an unforeseen occurrence can alter your life forever.
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Check_Your_Premises
I saw it the day it opened.
It was obviously designed to make you feel as if you are THERE. It ends looking out the cockpit as they struggle for control of the plane. The ground comes up and then at the moment of impact goes to black. You die with them.
There has been much talk about this movie being propaganda or speculation or even exploitation.
I don't think it was. If anything it was completely devoid of commentary.
Obviously there was some speculation as to the events on the plane in those final minutes. All the info we have (unless you are convinced that everything the "government" tells us is a lie) was from phone conversations with those on the ground and the data from the inflight recorder. All depictions of the individuals were made based on extensive research on these folks with input from their families (probably not the families of the terrorists).
As far as I know, everything that was depicted was tied to some information. Any events that were speculated on appeared to me to be completely plausible and even likely. Ultimately it was a "best guess" as to what really happened. But anyone who would complain about it would have to provide a better explanation based on some verifiable fact. Quite a challenge indeed.
And ulitmately what does it matter. The plane went down before it hit the capitol building. Unless you are convinced that the plane was shot down by the "government", you have to acknowledge that however successful they were, these folks are the reason why.
Rest in peace, and thank you!
CYP