Posts by bennyk

Sad Michael writes: Was not the first century GB a group of spirit annointed older men who wrote letters to instruct and direct as well as correct and counsel with a view to the building up of the clean congregation in order to further the spread (preaching of) the good news ? 1 cor 5:9

I would dispute that. The "Christian Greek Scriptures" demonstrate that the early Christians were guided by the Head of the Congregation, the Lord Christ Jesus, not some "Governing Body." But even if we were to assume from Acts chapter 15 that some manner of governing body existed in the first century, we would note that it would have been composed of “the Apostles and older men.” (vs. 6) And the authority of the Apostles was unique: we cannot clothe anyone today with their authority. Even the Reasoning book (p.37) notes: “ Apostolic Succession --Definition: The doctrine that the 12 apostles have successors to whom authority has been passed by divine appointment.... Not a Bible teaching.” (Italics in original)

81

My JW Daughter sends a Letter to us Explaining her Shunning of Me

by flipper in

jw
friends

my wife and i sent my 22 yr.old pioneer witness daughter and her husband a anniversary card and $ 40.00 and flowers the end of april.

my daughter wrote mrs. flipper and me each our own individual letters thanking us initially for the gifts - and then went into detail as to why she has not spoken to me for over a year and shunned me.. keep in mind as i paraphrase some of the highlights to these letters that the only negative thing i have said about the organization to my daughter in 3 years was to show her the ap news release about the child abuse settlements by the wt society .

i'll quote parts of the letter to mrs. flipper first :.

bennyk

Mr. Flipper, old boy. It's a dreadful thing to see the mind-control at work. At least your daughter still expresses love for you. We'll be praying that she sees the light and that you find some peace.

"Sad Michael" writes:

I pray your daughter and any others who are faced with the choice of being loyal to Jehovah or anything or anyone will (continue to) choose Jehovah.

I agree whole-heartedly. Too bad Mr. Flipper's daughter has chosen to remain loyal to a false-prophet publishing company, instead of Jehovah, or her own father.

My wife agreed wth it then and does not agree with it now. What has changed?

Perhaps she decided to take the Watch Tower Society's advice to investigate one's religion and upon doing so came to the conclusion that it would please her heavenly Father most if she were to leave the God-dishonouring Watchtower cult. (Just a guess.)

7

1935..and Rutherford's great crowd?

by digderidoo in

i wondered if anyone has any information here as to the numbers of jw's in 1935.. i am assuming that the numbers were closing in on 144,000 so rutherford had to come up with this new idea of a great crowd, would i be correct in this assumption?.

paul.

bennyk

The Watch Tower Society taught until 1935 that the "Great Crowd" was a second class of Christians with a heavenly hope.

The 144 000 were the Bride-class, the Great Multitude (Crowd) an attendant class ('Brides-maids').

The increasing numbers of Bible Students affiliated with the Watch Tower Society did not force the change in doctrine. The teaching allowed for large numbers of heaven-bound Christians. The Watch Tower Society taught the following in the 1917 publication The Finished Mystery on page 103:

FM103
Was ten thousand times ten thousand, and
thousands of thousands

.— The number of the
Great Company will apparently exceed one
hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1
indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites,
which would make the number of the Great
Company approximate 411,840,000.— T118,
119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12

Currently, belief that more than 144 000 will receive a heavenly reward will result in Disfellowshipping. (w 01. April 1986 QfR)

19

The "faithful and discreet slave class" - Past, Present and Future

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

iv) believe that jesus christ is mediator for "the faithful and discreet slave".

today, that "slave" is represented by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

5. elders.

bennyk

Excellent post! Thanks, kindly!

10

Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 27 April 2009

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

*** lv chap.

4 pp.

what role does jehovah assign to the husband and father in the family, and how may a man fulfill that role?.

bennyk

others have decided to remain childless and consider the possibility of bearing children in Jehovah’s righteous new world. Is this shortsighted? Are they missing out on life? Are they to be pitied?

Yes. YES. YES!

However, when a woman fills a role normally assigned to a baptized male, she wears a head covering. (1 Corinthians 11:3-10)

Actually, the Scripture states: when she "prays or prophesies..."

Never would we want to have the attitude of Diotrephes, who had no respect for those taking the lead in his day. (3 John 9, 10)

Diotrephes was "taking the lead" in his local congregation. The Apostle writes that Diotrephes "likes to have first place among them," not that he simply wanted to have first place among them... (The Governing Body is the "anti-typical Diotrephes.")

17

What does Romans 10:9,10 mean to a JW?

by Colton in

romans 10:9,10.

"...if you confess with your mouth jesus as lord, and believe in your heart that god raised jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.".

in my ten years as a jw, there was absolutely no emphases to the importance of this scripture.

bennyk

As HB stated: "Any member of the "crowd" could now point out that the commission to preach publicly was given only to the annointed.

And why not? Maybe someday one of the "Other Sheep" will read Isaiah 61:1 ("The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones.")

24

Great, simple Watchtower quote to show their HYPOCRISY. Easy to use.

by nicolaou in

"we cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry-be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization.

" the watchtower, 11/1/1990, p. 26. .

and from the very same month and year .

bennyk

This is also useful:

“But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.)” (WT 15. Sept. 1993, p.22)

20

Who knows of an Annointed one getting Disfellowshipped?

by annalice in

jw
friends

ok ,so if new annointed ones can still come about , who here has ever heard of any annointed ones in their congregation or surrounding congregations getting disfellowshipped or simply fading out of the organization.

thus allowing some new annointed one to take their place?.

and if someone says "hey i am annointed" do they have to check with bethal who then checks a list or something to see if there is a annointed one somewhere in the world who just got d'fd?.

bennyk

A comment was made above: "The only way it can go up is if one or more that have already received his/her heavenly reward turns bad and has to be replaced."

Not so. There is another explanation. [Disclaimer: I do not believe this.]

The replacement of an "unfaithful, formerly anointed" individual need not be immediate, but rather, take place after the passage of some time (perhaps several years). Thus, the number of recognized anointed members of the "Remnant" will fall both because of death AND upon their defection from the "one, true Faith" []. Accordingly, it could be (but need not appear as) a one-for-one replacement because the cumulative defection of not-yet-replaced Evil Slaves could take place over several years, followed by a total replacement in a SINGLE year. If the number of recognized replacements exceeds the number of those who have died faithful since the previous Memorial, the total number of "anointed" will appear to increase. Of course, such an explanation is necessary only if the number 144 000 be literal.

23

Governing body member comments about new anointed

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

http://www.jwbrothers.org/play_audio.php?audio=612.

i listened to the talk of samuel herd, a governing body member.

he says something like, many new anointed are real trouble-makers in the congregations.

bennyk

In 1935 the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of "other sheep," Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in "the last days" and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.
(Watchtower, 01.05.07)

Compare to the following:

Life Everlasting (1966) (p. 147)
53 Since then, going on to a million persons have
Dedicated themselves to Jehovah God and have
been baptized in water and now profess to belong,
not to the anointed remnant of the “little flock,”
(p. 148)
but to the “other sheep.” In fact, no heavenly
calling, no spiritual Kingdom hope, were held be-
fore them at the time of their water baptism.Why was this? What did this baptism and bring-
ing in of such “other sheep” since 1934 mean?

54 Evidently it meant that the 144,000 who were
called to the heavenly kingdom had been picked
out by that time and that there was just a rem-
nant of those “anointed” for the Kingdom left
on earth.”

It certainly seems to me that the Society set the stage for the confirmation of their teaching. The circular reasoning is priceless! ‘Because the heavenly calling ended circa 1934, it was not offered to the “other sheep”, which meant they necessarily felt they had an earthly hope, and since they did, it indicates the heavenly calling ended circa 1934…’