Posts by bennyk

55

Selection of the JWs in 1918/1919 - how might a JW attempt to show from the Bible

by insearchoftruth in

jw
friends

16 years ago

i had asked my wife, who is in the study phase with a jw sister about the selection of the jws by jc in 1918/1919 time frame and she had actually never heard of that.. the husband of this woman she is studying with has been chomping at the bit to talk to me...well my wife said she will ask him to come show me, using only the bible, how this selection was made...of course she did not clear this request with the dubman before telling me she would do this.. i am guessing he will be there when i get home from work tomorrow, she is also torturing our son with a bs now (her son from a previous marriage).. what sort of reach do you think he will try to make to show this...i am guessing he will try to show 1914 from the daniel/revelation stuff, if he does this i am going to ask him to show 607bce from a non jw source....since i believe it is 586/587 bce as a starting date......i hope to keep him on the 1918/1919 topic, and have some examples of their beliefs from that era to talk about as well.

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

Also, you asked about whether it would be wise to mention that modern Bible Student groups adhere more closely to what the WTS taught in 1918-19. I don't think it would add much to the conversation to bring this up. The JW response is that the light gets brighter and those Bible Students are stuck in the past. It would be a distraction and would likely lead off on a tangent.
I guess the only reason I would ask this question is to show that the folks who are presently known as JWs were not exclusive to their beliefs/thinking at that time...

I would be inclined to ask why Jesus did not choose the Associated Bible Students (Pastoral Bible Institute). They were teaching everything the Watch Tower Society was in 1918, excepting the bizarre new doctrines found in The Finished Mystery and Millions Now Living Will Never Die! (e.g. the false prophecies regarding 1918, 1920 and 1925).

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17

August 1 Watchtower on my desk!

by AK - Jeff in

16 years ago

my wife encountered a jw today at the uptown laundry where she goes to dry blankets and large items from time to time.. i had just asked her an hour earlier to look around and see if any mags were laying around there - i don't know why.

i just wanted to see if any major layout changes were taking place with the watchliar and asleep lately.. i have not opened them.

i am looking though at the cover of the tower - cover title 'how can you choose a good religion?

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

This is the article which quotes Jesus' words at Matt. 7:15 ("Beware of false prophets...)

The Society has quite the stones, hasn't it?

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39

Birthday Celebrations & other shenanigans

by homeschool in

16 years ago

well, here's my latest "thing"...i plan on speaking with my siblings & their mates in the near future.

i have told them that i have questions regarding some doctrines, mainly stuff like birthdays, mother's day, father's day, etc.

my hubby has some questions for them regarding their wacky blood doctrine (but i wont cover that in this thread).

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

If the celebration of birthdays is wrong BECAUSE in the scriptural accounts ONE person died at each of two such celebrations, would it not be forbidden to give (wedding) presents???

(1 Kings 9:16NWT: "(Pharaoh the king of Egypt himself had come up and then captured Ge'zer and burned it with fire, and the Ca'naanites dwelling in the city he had killed. So he gave it as a parting gift to his daughter, the wife of Solomon.)")

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12

Pastor Russell Said (in 1908) Beware of Apostates!!!!!

by whereami in

jw
friends

16 years ago

you gotta love good old russell.. http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2009/03/beware-of-apostates.htmlpastor russell said (in 1908).

all who cut loose from the society and its work, instead of prospering themselves or upbuilding others in the faith and in the graces of the spirit, seemingly do the reverseattempt injury to the cause they once served, and, with more or less noise, gradually sink into oblivion, harming only themselves and others possessed of a similarly contentious spirit.

if some think that they can get as good or better provender at other tables, or that they can produce as good or better themselveslet these take their course.

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

The quote comes from the 01. October 1909 Watch Tower, reprints pages 4482-4.

I believe the controversy came about because Russell had begun to deny that the New Covenant is for the Church, and because of the curious incident of the "Vow".

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48

"Apostates can only criticize , tear down and destroy "

by BluesBrother in

16 years ago

"apostates can only criticize , tear down and destroy " say the active dubs, "where is their hope of something better?

what is their message to mankind ?

if they have nothing better to offer, how can they attack our faith, which at least offers a hope of a better world?".

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

[Recycled old post (2/26/2009)]

"’Are we at the End of the World?’ was the subject of
Mr. Rutherford’s address. This was his first public appearance
in Brooklyn since the death of Pastor Russell.
"’Criticism of a man is hardly the proper course for a
Christian,’ he said, ’but criticism of a man’s teachings is always
proper. " (Watch Tower, 15. June 1917 [Reprints page 6104])

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421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

16 years ago

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

12 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

"scholar" writes:

When you have a prophecy or when you begin to prophecy then you can start talking about what others have done.

Actually, Deut. 18:20-22 requires no such thing.

Neither does Jesus at Matt. 7:15-20.

Neither does the Apostle John at 1 John 4:1.

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421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

16 years ago

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

12 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

"scholar" writes:

Ann O Maly
Post 944
But those predicted events did come about with the outbreak of World War 1 and the ending of the Gentile Times as corroborated by the media of the day and several clergyman some years later. Thus, those Bible Students were forever vindicated for their integrity.

So "scholar" is now claiming that the media of the day and several clergymen (some years later) corroborated Russell's claims by stating that the 'very elect had all been changed by 1915' and that 'natural Israel was restored to divine favour under the New Covenant'. Very interesting. And -- of course -- he also feels the Bible Students were forever vindicated for their integrity because they promulgated false prophecies in millions of copies for decades, and then lied about it. That is "scholar's" definition of 'acting with integrity.' Apparently, "scholar" has found it too challenging to be 'modest, honest, and sincere.'

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421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

16 years ago

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

12 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

"scholar" writes:

Your mischevious misuse of the quote from a 1913 WT does you no credit but at least simply proves that those early Bible Students acted with integrity and that is something lacking with apostates and a a quality that you would do well to imitate.

It may be "mischevious", but I fail to understand how it was a "misuse." I simply took Russell at his word... Please explain how promulgating false prophecies in millions of copies for decades, and then lying about it is 'acting with integrity.'

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421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

16 years ago

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

12 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

"scholar" writes:

The clincher for such an approved methodology is the fact that the Gentile Times expired in 1914 CE based upon the scholarly determined 607-537 BCE scenario.

The "Gentile Times" did not expire in 1914.

The non-fulfillment of Russell's "expectations" "prove[d] [Russell's] chronology wrong.

The non-fulfillment of Russell's "expectations" "work[ed] irreparable wreck to ... the epoch called 'Gentile Times'...

But let us suppose a case far from our expectations: Suppose that A.D. 1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence that the "very elect" had not all been "changed" and without the restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant.(Rom. 11:12,15.) What then? Would not that prove our chronology wrong? Yes, surely! And would not that prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it would! It would work irreparable wreck tothe Parallel dispensations and Israel's Double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and to the prophecy of the 2300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called "Gentile Times," and to the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, the latter of which marking the beginning of the Harvest so well fulfilled its prediction, "Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335 days!" None of these would be available longer. What a blow that would be! One of the strings of our "harp" would be quite broken! Watch Tower Reprints, p.5368 (December, 1913)

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3

reply from friend on 607...1914..etc

by isaacaustin in

jw
friends

16 years ago

i have had an ongoing discussion with a friend on the validity of 1914, as well as the chronology leading to it...i roundly refuted the wt drivel quoted and got this response....notice the changing of topics...as well as admission he can not refute.... .

i am so sorry that i have used the wrong term when talking about the scriptures in num.

and eze.

16 years ago

bennyk 16 years ago

Your friend writes:

I will not deny that the Bible students of the time had incorrect expectations of what Christ's coming really entailed, but they were aware that something special would take place then nonetheless. Let's not forget that the apostasy has been in full swing for so many centuries and the light of truth was obscured for so long. It would take time to get the correct understanding on things and adjustments would have to be made and humbly accept the discipline.

Or, rather than 'humbly accepting the discipline', the Watch Tower Society could snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by lying about their insight. "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914." ( Watchtower, 15. Jan. 1993, p. 5) Not true. "Based on what [Jesus] said, along with the words of Daniel and John, Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance,* as marking the start of 'the conclusion of the system of things.' " ( Awake! 22. January 1973) Likewise, not true.

What can we conclude from these statements? Why not take the Watch Tower Society at their own words --

"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." (Watchtower, 01. December 1991, p.7)

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