The snippet from the Walsh trial transcript was from the cross-examination of Hayden Covington -- not Fred Franz.
bennyk
JoinedPosts by bennyk
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The Governing Body has NEVER claimed to be inspired
by Alfred inthere was a recent thread here which covered the subject of the gb claiming to be spirit directed (and not actually inspired by the holy spirit).
by now, most of us are quite aware that this is just a play with words to excuse themselves whenever one of their false doctrines is debunked (by someone using the bible or their own publications).
but when you think of it, spirit-directed is actually more presumptuous than spirit-inspired.. that being said, id really like to draw attention to the fact that the wt continuously claims that the governing body of jehovahs witnesses has never claimed to be inspired by god (through his holy spirit).
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A few notes on September 15, 2011 Watchtower, fresh off the presses!
by sd-7 inseptember 15th, 2011 watchtower, page 28, paragraph 13:.
"if a human overseer in god's organization provides you with instructions that seem extremely detailed, you might at times feel frustrated.
jehovah, however, is a perfect overseer who delegates generously and trusts his servants.
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bennyk
"The finish line is just ahead.What a pity it would be if we allowed ourselves to be burdened down with unnecessary weights that could impede us when we are so close to the end!"(p. 22)
"We are near the end of our race. The finish line is as good as in sight." (p. 24)
This could just as easily be found in a Zion's Watch Tower from the 1880's...
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A few notes on September 15, 2011 Watchtower, fresh off the presses!
by sd-7 inseptember 15th, 2011 watchtower, page 28, paragraph 13:.
"if a human overseer in god's organization provides you with instructions that seem extremely detailed, you might at times feel frustrated.
jehovah, however, is a perfect overseer who delegates generously and trusts his servants.
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bennyk
"Jesus also urged his disciples to ‘keep on seeking first God’s righteousness.’ (Matt. 6:33) This means putting Jehovah’s standard of what is right and what is wrong ahead of human norms. ( Read Isaiah 55:8, 9. ) You may recall that in the past, a number of people were involved in growing tobacco or selling tobacco products, training others in warfare, or producing and selling weapons of war. After coming to a knowledge of the truth, most chose to change their employment and qualify for baptism." (p. 13)
Hypocrites! Anybody remember the "Rand Cam Scandal"?
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"Overlapping generation" explanation - TRANSCRIBED EXTRACT from Friday's talk (DC 2011-12)
by AnnOMaly ini thought this would be easier to examine if written down:.
god's kingdom will soon come.
so we know that god's kingdom will soon come.. .
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bennyk
TD writes regarding the Society's teaching from 1995-2008:
You get:
"Those contemporaneous with the sign who take no note of it will not be destroyed at Armageddon until the entire sign of the end has occurred"
--Which is a meaningless tautology.
Actually, it may be even more meaningless than that. I interpret it as: "When Jesus comes [soon!] to destroy the wicked, there will be some to destroy..."
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Best old books for exposing the 1874/1914 fraud?
by Essan ini'm looking for a couple of the society's old books, one just prior to 1914 the other in the 1920's (as late as possible), which would show what the society was actually saying about 1914 in the run up to that year and that they were still promoting 1874 as the year of christ's presence for many years after 1914.. .
basically i'm looking for recommendations for two of their old books which would do the most damage to the modern jw claims about their past and show they could not have fulfilled prophesy or "qualified" for anything back then, as they claim.. .
there must be a couple of books which are really dynamite, choc full of nonsense and failed predictions.
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bennyk
Any of the pre-1914 editions of The Time is at Hand will prove useful.
As for the World article... The Society has often referred to this article to establish their claim that the Society's message about 1914 had been correct. An example in the official history:
*** Jehovah’sWitnesses—ProclaimersofGod’sKingdom p.60***
“Look Outfor1914!”
When World War I broke out in 1914, “The World,” then a leading newspaper in New York City, stated in its magazine section: “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. . . . ‘Look out for 1914!’ has been the cry of the hundreds of travelling evangelists, who, representing this strange creed [associated with Russell], have gone up and down the country enunciating the doctrine that ‘the Kingdom of God is at hand.’”—“The World Magazine,” August 30, 1914.
The WT CD-ROM will include a dozen others. The following indicates that the Society's claim was based on The Time is at Hand:
*** The Watchtower 19553/15pp.173-174***
A typical public-press reaction to the situation was published August 30, 1914, by a leading New York city newspaper, TheWorld. “End of All Kingdoms in 1914” was the arresting headline of a long feature article in that journal’s Sunday magazine section (pages 4 and 17), from which we quote:
“According to the Calculations of Rev. Russell’s ‘International Bible Students,’ This Is the ‘Time of Trouble’ Spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, the Year 1914 Predicted in the Book ‘The Time Is at Hand,’of which Four Million Copies Have Been Sold, as the Date of the Downfall of the Kingdoms of Earth.
When using The Time is at Hand, be certain to look at pages 76-7; 98,99; 101; 140; 170; 245... Have fun!
You might also like to read the original World article:
http://wtarchiv.bplaced.net/en/other/1914_End_of_all_Kingdoms.pdf
(Thanks, Cabasilas and processor!)
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Best old books for exposing the 1874/1914 fraud?
by Essan ini'm looking for a couple of the society's old books, one just prior to 1914 the other in the 1920's (as late as possible), which would show what the society was actually saying about 1914 in the run up to that year and that they were still promoting 1874 as the year of christ's presence for many years after 1914.. .
basically i'm looking for recommendations for two of their old books which would do the most damage to the modern jw claims about their past and show they could not have fulfilled prophesy or "qualified" for anything back then, as they claim.. .
there must be a couple of books which are really dynamite, choc full of nonsense and failed predictions.
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bennyk
Use the 1912 edition of The Time is at Hand [Studies in the Scriptures, volume II] to prove that nothing predicted for 1914 occurred. (This edition also changes some of the dates from 1914 to 1915, thereby also further counteracting the famous The World article from August 1914...)
The book Prophecy (1929) states that Jesus' Second Presence in 1874. Although it is later than The Harp of God (1921), I would give the nod to the latter because it discusses not only 1874, but also 1799 (as "beginning of the time of the end"), and in editions earlier than 1928 also declared C T Russell as "Faithful and Wise Servant"... Furthermore, boldly emblazoned on the cover are the words "proof conclusive that millions now living will never die" (pre-1928 editions).
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Jehovah is awe inspiring!
by Sour Grapes ina witless friend sent this to me yesterday.
able to copy the picture however the email is interesting.
and really shows the depth of their mentality.. sour grapes.
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bennyk
You only received word yesterday(?) This was posted 07. January 2008 on JWD...
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Official position on Salvation
by tiotuerto ini became interested in jws about a year ago due to the favorable and believable answers to several questions that i had.
however there were a couple of others that were never clearly answered and i have since discovered a noticable reluctance on the part of wt elders to discuss.
perhaps there is someone out there that can set me straight on the official position of the organization on this particular point.. question: is it officially true that to have a chance at eternal life here on paradise earth one must be a (1) baptized and (2) official member of a congregation of the jehova's witnesses and that no others outside the jws can hope to attain salvation.. this seems to be the predominate assumption in most of the teachings i have so far encountered.
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bennyk
- (Hope this helps):
- "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 01. Sep. 1989 p.19
- "Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 15. Feb. 1983 p.12
- "During the final period of the 'ancient world' that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful 'preacher of righteousness.' (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known God's righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 15. May 2006 p.22
- "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." (Watchtower 15. Sep. p.22)
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Apostasy and Df question
by jam inspeaking hypothetically, a elder can not except the logic on the.
new understanding of the doctrine change (over lapping generation).. he voice his concern to his wife, she being a good jw , tell the elders.. the brother have not spoke to anyone in the cong.
about his doubt.. the elders question him, he remains firm, he tell the brothers, i have.
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bennyk
The elders question him, he remains firm, he tell the Brothers, I have
not question the society teaching in the past but this new change
I can not except.
When the Elders interrogate him regarding his concern(s), he will give reasons for not accepting the new teaching.
His reasoning with the other Elders can be construed as attempting to "[spread] (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible Truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses".
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Mother-in-law sends some reasoning on wedding anniversaries vs birthdays...
by garyneal inmother-in-law sends my wife a thank you card because she did something nice for her mom on their 33rd wedding anniversary.
they went out to eat dinner, a cake was provided, and everyone had a good time.
frankly, all that was needed was the candles and a song and it would be no different than a birthday party.
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bennyk
(Recycled old post [29.04.05]):
If the celebration of birthdays is wrong BECAUSE in the scriptural accounts ONE person died at each of two such celebrations, would it not be forbidden to give (wedding) presents???
(1 Kings 9:16NWT: "(Pharaoh the king of Egypt himself had come up and then captured Ge'zer and burned it with fire, and the Ca'naanites dwelling in the city he had killed. So he gave it as a parting gift to his daughter, the wife of Solomon.)")
To which tijkmo commented:
this is what the insight book had to say: "Just when this unidentified Pharaoh had conquered Gezer, which he now gave to his daughter as a farewell wedding gift, or dowry, is not stated." so its not as if wts explain that scripture any other way.